Frack's reference post

[FrackOff]

Hi All
I have been asked in various threads for references. I am starting a new thread as I've lost track of all the conversations. I wasn't going to bother as people usually don't want to read them but since one or two have said they really do want to read them with an open mind, here are a few.

Reidar Schei Jessen & Katrina Roen (2019) Balancing in the margins
of gender: exploring psychologists’ meaning-making in their work with gender non- conforming youth seeking puberty suppression, Psychology & Sexuality, 10:2, 119-131, DOI: 10.1080/19419899.2019.1568290

ABSTRACT
The past 15 years have seen the growth of puberty suppression as the prevailing approach to supporting gender non-conforming children and youth. Puberty suppression is considered to provide time for weighing up the pros and cons of medical transition. Research based on binary under- standings of gender has demonstrated that a carefully selected group of gender non-conforming youth benefit from physical treatment and gender transition, but the research that details how psychologists can best support young people during this time is limited. This is the gap addressed by the current research. The purpose of the present study is to explore the meaning-making framework within which some clinical psychologists and gender non-conforming youth approach discussions of puberty suppression. Five semi-structured interviews were conducted with clinical psychologists working with gender non-conforming youth. The data were analysed using thematic analysis. The results indicate that there is pressure on gender non- conforming youth, often coming from families, friends and mass media, to buy into heteronormative and binary discourses regarding gender and what constitutes a good life. The results also indicate that the participants deploy affirmative and exploratory therapeutic strategies in their work, in order to enable gender non-conforming youth to make informed decisions regarding puberty suppression. Participants emphasized the importance of therapeutic approaches that explore non-binary gender discourses, alongside the use of puberty suppression and other medical interventions that enable clients to fit more with gender norms. The therapeutic balance between affirmation and exploration may shed light on how both research within the binary tradition and critics of binary assumptions are in danger of oversimplifying the process of gender identity development. This research highlights the importance of understanding the complex negotiation of gender discourses that are in tension with one another.

Kenneth J. Zucker PhD , Susan J. Bradley MD , Allison Owen-Anderson
PhD , Devita Singh MA , Ray Blanchard PhD & Jerald Bain MD (2010) Puberty-Blocking Hormonal Therapy for Adolescents with Gender Identity Disorder: A Descriptive Clinical Study, Journal of Gay & Lesbian Mental Health, 15:1, 58-82, DOI: 10.1080/19359705.2011.530574

Yes, this is the same Zucker.
A bit of the discussion:

The primary aim of the present study was to examine whether or not our clinical recommendation to institute hormonal-blocking treatment for ado- lescents with GID was reliably associated with a series of demographic, behavior problem, and psychosexual measures that were part of our diag- nostic assessment protocol. In this consecutive series of adolescents, hor- monal blockers were recommended (although not necessarily instituted) for 60.6% of the sample. This percentage was similar to the 66.6% reported on by Cohen-Kettenis and van Goozen (1997) but somewhat higher than the 42.5% reported on by Smith et al. (2001).
The clinical decision to recommend hormonal blockers was reliably as- sociated with several of our quantitative measures. We were more likely to recommend blockers for biological females and less likely to recommend
Gender Identity Disorder in Adolescents 77
blockers for youth who were in-care (Table 1). None of the other demo- graphic variables (age at assessment, YOA, IQ, parent’s social class and mar- ital status, and ethnicity) were significantly associated with this recommen- dation. We were less likely to recommend blockers for youth who reported, on average, higher mean behavior problem scores on the YSR, but there was no significant difference in this recommendation as a function of the parent-report CBCL score (Table 2). The recommendation for blockers was also reliably associated with more extreme concurrent and recalled gender dysphoria and cross-gender behavior (across a number of measures) and for youth with a homosexual sexual orientation (in relation to their birth sex) (Table 2). In the logistic regression, five variables (out of 15) were predictive of our recommendation for hormonal treatment, including several measures related to degree of cross-gender behavior and gender dysphoria, a lower YSR score, and a visible ethnic minority status (Table 3).

Mechibelle M. Lynch, Mili M. Khandheria & Walter J. Meyer III (2015) Retrospective Study of the Management of Childhood and Adolescent Gender Identity Disorder Using Medroxyprogesterone Acetate, International Journal of Transgenderism, 16:4, 201-208, DOI: 10.1080/15532739.2015.1080649

ABSTRACT. GnRH analogues are the standard therapy but expensive therapy for the suppression of pubertal changes in transsexual individuals. In the 1960s, medroxyprogesterone acetate was found to be efficacious in treating central precocious puberty by inhibiting the secretion of gonadotropins and/or interfering with gonadal steroid synthesis. To avoid the adverse effects and prohibitive cost of gonadotropin releasing hormone analogues, this study utilized medroxyprogesterone as an alternative treatment for puberty sex hormone suppression. The goal of this retrospective chart review is to determine the efficacy and safety of medroxyprogesterone. Sixteen subjects with Gender Identity Disorder less than 19 years were offered medroxyprogesterone to suppress puberty sex steroids. Seven male-to-female individuals were treated with the oral form of medroxyprogesterone. Six female-to-male individuals used depot medroxyprogesterone acetate; one used oral; and two refused. One decided to change back to being female. None of the patients discontinued therapy because of unwanted side-effects. In conclusion, medroxyprogesterone is an effective, safe, and affordable option for the suppression of pubertal hormones in teens desiring gender change. It is also an excellent option for those who have needle phobia. Response to treatment and compliance were favorable.

Annie Pullen Sansfaçon, Julia Temple-Newhook, Frank Suerich-Gulick, Stephen Feder, Margaret L. Lawson, Jennifer Ducharme, Shuvo Ghosh, Cindy Holmes & On behalf of the Stories of Gender-Affirming Care Team (2019): The experiences of gender diverse and trans children and youth considering and initiating medical interventions in Canadian gender-affirming speciality clinics, International Journal of Transgenderism, DOI: 10.1080/15532739.2019.1652129

ABSTRACT
Background: Canadian specialty clinics offering gender-affirming care to trans and gender diverse children and youth have observed a significant increase in referrals in recent years, but there is a lack of information about the experiences of young people receiving care. Furthermore, treatment protocols governing access to gender-affirming medical interven- tions remain a topic of debate.
Aims: This qualitative research aims to develop a deeper understanding of experiences of trans youth seeking and receiving gender-affirming care at Canadian specialty clinics, includ- ing their goals in accessing care, feelings about care and medical interventions they have undergone, and whether they have any regrets about these interventions.
Methods: The study uses an adapted Grounded Theory methodology from social determi- nants of health perspective. Thirty-five trans and gender diverse young people aged 9 to 17years were recruited to participate in semi-structured interviews through the specialty clinics where they had received or were waiting for gender-affirming medical interventions such as puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and surgery.
Results: Young people felt positively overall about the care they had received and the med- ical interventions they had undergone, with many recounting an improvement in their well- being since starting care. Most commonly shared frustrations concerned delays in accessing interventions due to clinic waiting lists or treatment protocols. Some youth described unwanted medication side-effects and others said they had questioned their transition tra- jectory at certain moments in the past, but none regretted their choice to undergo the interventions.
Discussion: The results suggest that trans youth and gender diverse children are benefiting from medical gender-affirming care they receive at specialty clinics, providing valuable insight into their decision-making processes in seeking care and specific interventions. Providers might consider adjusting aspects of treatment protocols (such as age restrictions, puberty stage, or mental health assessments) or applying them on a more flexible, case-by- case basis to reduce barriers to access.

So the four articles above are about blockers, which was the main topic people were requesting references for.

Anyone with a university login would be able to download the whole articles if anyone wants to read them.

There is also this, which fed into the United Nations report on the healthcare provision for trans children in the UK:

Children’s Rights Alliance for England (CRAE). (2016). Briefing Paper: Children speak out on transgender issues. Retrieved from www.crae.org.uk/media/118087/CRAE-BULLETIN_TRANS_FINAL.pdf

I'm really busy tonight and tomorrow but may be able to respond if anyone wants to discuss these over the weekend.

There's another thread that you started that needs your input FrackOff.

Why don't you post your research in response to requests on actual threads rather than spamming Mumsnet with a litany of random articles?

Is that all you’ve got?

None of those articles “debunk” ROGD as you claimed. None of those articles are RCTs comparing puberty blockers to psychological therapy alone. They are poor quality, retrospective analyses of small numbers assessing decisions already made.

Jazz Jennings has never, and will never have an orgasm FrackOff. Does that bother you at all?

people.com/tv/jazz-jennings-talks-sexual-stuff-orgasm-libido-doctor-before-gender-confirmation-surgery/

@NotBadConsidering

Back up your claims.

Qualitative research informs quantitative research and vice versa.

The Zucker article for example situates some case studies within a much larger dataset.

I've only given you the abstracts or a summary so unless you actually read the whole articles you won't be able to make that kind of call.

Anyway, enjoy reading and I will respond to reasonable questions engaging with the actual literature which people have requested.

Anyway, enjoy reading and I will respond to reasonable questions engaging with the actual literature which people have requested.

actual LOL

who wants to bet that FrackOff is an academic IRL?

Posting about experiments on children on a parenting site will never garner favour for your cause.

Back up your claims

🤣🤣

You claimed ROGD has been debunked. All of these abstracts you’ve posted were published before the Littman article. So back up your claim that ROGD has been “debunked”.

None of these articles are on the long term health impacts of puberty blockers. They are short term questionnaire studies. Back up your claim that puberty blockers are safe to use long term and don’t cause infertility and no sexual function.

And as for my claim, I have posted a link with Jazz Jennings saying that Jazz has no sexual function. Does this bother you in any way? Because personally I find it heartbreaking.

As I said on the other thread, posts like yours FrackOff I think are invaluable to lurkers who see that there is nothing to back up your claims that puberty blockers are appropriate. You’ve posted weak, self-congratulatory, poorly designed, “research” from Mickey Mouse journals that affirm clinicians own biases.

I've only given you the abstracts or a summary so unless you actually read the whole articles you won't be able to make that kind of call

ah, so you'll only engage with people with a university login who could read the whole articles?

it feels a bit like you're dividing people into acceptable humans and unacceptable humans who you won't converse with

i thought that was norty @FrackOff ? are you not practising what you preach?

"who wants to bet that FrackOff is an academic IRL?"

I would bet 5p they aren't.

social 'sciences' I would say Driechdrizzle

Yanno, nothing that taxing, or requiring any actual precision or rigour

All. The. LOLs.

Still not got a clue wha5 frack believes in or what frack wants.

It’s a true like my face goes like this 🥴🙃

Littlbrowndog reference face 😟

The results indicate that there is pressure on gender non- conforming youth, often coming from families, friends and mass media, to buy into heteronormative and binary discourses regarding gender and what constitutes a good life
And later it says:
Participants emphasized the importance of therapeutic approaches that explore non-binary gender discourses, alongside the use of puberty suppression and other medical interventions that enable clients to fit more with gender norms
So because these young people feel pressure to conform to gender norms they should get medical interventions and puperty suppression along side therapeutic approaches so they can conform to gender norms?

So because these young people feel pressure to conform to gender norms they should get medical interventions and puperty suppression along side therapeutic approaches so they can conform to gender norms?

I find it quite worrying that there are people who think that gender non-conforming young people need to be 'cured' by medicating them.

What on earth were you using these papers to try to prove?

The third study is horrifying.

'Puberty blockers are great but they're a bit expensive. We dug up some cheaper drug used in the 60's and gave it to 14 kids. None of the patients discontinued therapy because of unwanted side-effects. In conclusion, medroxyprogesterone is an effective, safe, and affordable option for the suppression of pubertal hormones in teens desiring gender change.'

Full text of the Zucker paper from 2011

It's quite old, so doesn't really the current wave of ROGD. It does describe how two gay children have been 'cured' of their homosexuality by transition.

We hypothesized that the combination of internalized, familial, and cultural-religious homophobia was a contributing factor in Wayne’s gender dysphoria, since living in the female gender role would “normalize” his sexual orientation. We recommended hormonal therapy to suppress Wayne’s somatic masculinization and also saw him in supportive psychotherapy.

Pencils comment about the third paper is all that needs to be said.

Full text of the fourth paper.

Introduction
Across Canada over the past 5 years, we have observed an increase in the number of referrals of young people to specialty clinics offering gender-affirming care, mirroring trends in other countries. Transitions, whether they be social, medical or legal, can help alleviate gender dysphoria and decrease suicide ideations and attempts and are supported by gender-affirming models of care. Conversely, barriers to accessing transition related care can lead to increased anxiety, suicidal ideation, and to the disaffirmation of a person’s gender identity.

Instead of all this gender-affirmation, why aren't they doing research into why so many children and young people think they need to have their bodies modified to resemble those of the opposite sex?

ah, so you'll only engage with people with a university login who could read the whole articles

Really..l need a university login?

Oh

Yes 2011 is far too early to have anything to say about ROGD. The paper discusses prescribing patterns between 2000 and 2009 - which kids get the blockers and which ones don't.

Here's a chart of annual referrals to GIDS. Look where we were in 2009. How on earth is this paper relevant to any discussion of ROGD?

We hypothesized that the combination of internalized, familial, and cultural-religious homophobia was a contributing factor in Wayne’s gender dysphoria, since living in the female gender role would “normalize” his sexual orientation.
Jesus christ. On another thread today there was an article with a ftm who decided to be trans when her girlfriends homophobic father told her if she likes girls she should be a boy.

Am I a bad person for quite enjoying it when someone appears on MN with a sense of superiority and thinking we will bow down before their 'brilliance' - only to have their arse handed to them by the actually knowledgeable and brilliant fwr regulars?