Frack's reference post

[FrackOff]

Hi All
I have been asked in various threads for references. I am starting a new thread as I've lost track of all the conversations. I wasn't going to bother as people usually don't want to read them but since one or two have said they really do want to read them with an open mind, here are a few.

Reidar Schei Jessen & Katrina Roen (2019) Balancing in the margins
of gender: exploring psychologists’ meaning-making in their work with gender non- conforming youth seeking puberty suppression, Psychology & Sexuality, 10:2, 119-131, DOI: 10.1080/19419899.2019.1568290

ABSTRACT
The past 15 years have seen the growth of puberty suppression as the prevailing approach to supporting gender non-conforming children and youth. Puberty suppression is considered to provide time for weighing up the pros and cons of medical transition. Research based on binary under- standings of gender has demonstrated that a carefully selected group of gender non-conforming youth benefit from physical treatment and gender transition, but the research that details how psychologists can best support young people during this time is limited. This is the gap addressed by the current research. The purpose of the present study is to explore the meaning-making framework within which some clinical psychologists and gender non-conforming youth approach discussions of puberty suppression. Five semi-structured interviews were conducted with clinical psychologists working with gender non-conforming youth. The data were analysed using thematic analysis. The results indicate that there is pressure on gender non- conforming youth, often coming from families, friends and mass media, to buy into heteronormative and binary discourses regarding gender and what constitutes a good life. The results also indicate that the participants deploy affirmative and exploratory therapeutic strategies in their work, in order to enable gender non-conforming youth to make informed decisions regarding puberty suppression. Participants emphasized the importance of therapeutic approaches that explore non-binary gender discourses, alongside the use of puberty suppression and other medical interventions that enable clients to fit more with gender norms. The therapeutic balance between affirmation and exploration may shed light on how both research within the binary tradition and critics of binary assumptions are in danger of oversimplifying the process of gender identity development. This research highlights the importance of understanding the complex negotiation of gender discourses that are in tension with one another.

I’m calling Mermaids volunteer for Frack

Whoever Frack is, as I’ve said before I find these threads invaluable for lurkers. It’s all laid out bare, the lack of evidence for what these kids are being put through.

they’re infertile and anorgasmic. Is this acceptable to you?

This is a fairly simple one, Frack. A simple yes or no will do.

Which is it to be?

'Triggering'. Oh, my aching sides.

I agree, Mermaids volunteer. Frack, we're not buying what you're selling.

Indeed. If even discussing what's been done to poor Jazz is "triggering" then why the hell does anyone think it's OK to actually do it?

Jazz humanises this. On paper we don't have to face the truth.

The evidence that's staring us in the face. The evidence that supersedes engineered 'studies'

The Mermaids link would make sense.

Jazz is happy to discuss it on the Lifestyle Channel FFS. But we can’t discuss it MN because “triggering”? I’m fucked if I’m going to be silenced on this one.

Frack you haven't addressed why it's triggering.

My laptop is now advertising erectile dysfunction stuff to me, it has been triggered by this thread!

Frack, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.

You are genuinely doing the Goddess' work here by presenting your absolutely horseshit "data" and "sources" for the vipers at Mumsnet to dissect. And all for the benefit of the many, many lurkers who read this forum. You deserve a medal for your services to Gender Critical Feminism.

Salut!

This thread could not have turned out better, once again.

So we can translate "Here's my evidence"

to

"I can't be arsed to actually provide refences on threads when asked so I shall direct you to this thread instead where I've suggested other people you know should do my work for me."

Got it.

I do learn so much from here

Nothing from @FrackOff yet, but plenty from some very smart women

thank you

I definitely appreciate those with the patience (and login access) to slog through the drivel offered as "evidence" and debunk it piece by piece.

It's a way of not bowing down to the little people and our requests. Frack comes here with their superior sounding posts and refuses to engage directly. In an argument both sides generally treat each other as equals using data to back up their arguments that they themselves provide. In different discussions they may make the same point again, and use the same data to back up their argument. They are the unwritten rules of debate.

Like you say it seems Frack, rather than getting their hands dirty by actually engaging, will loftily direct people over here and expect their opponent to sort through all the various links and decide which one is making Frack's argument for them. It's a huge power play to be getting other people to do the work you should be doing yourself. Who else on Mumsnet starts their own thread all about their individual reference material? That's something you keep on the computer at home. Or like the Alison Phipps thread where Frack couldn't be bothered to summarise what was being said or make their own argument about why they agreed with her. Everybody was supposed to work around and for Frack.

You may come to realise that it's not such a good idea to do this Frack, because the more you do this, the more people will see patterns, will analyse what is going on and may usefully use that analysis in other parts of their lives. You're providing us with insights that simply wouldn't be available if you engaged in discussions here the same way that everybody else does.

Also I don't need a study to tell me that sterilising children with drugs and stopping their bodies going through a piece of vital human development - puberty - is a bad idea. See also amputating healthy body parts that are also vital for human reproduction - penises, breasts and testicles - on very young adults.

The fact that you can draw conclusions from this research that makes you think the above is justifiable shows that the research is wrong. If you want to talk about white colonialism and its historical roots the western medical establishment might be a good place to start.

Not everyone reading this is commenting. Nobody would dare to oppose the hegemonic commentary here because the backlash is harsh. I'm happy to have shared something some might find helpful.

Good for you frac, and you are right millions are reading everyday.

Millions are better informed because of this thread.

Nobody can do anything else but thank you.

Millions are seeing no answers from you and 'naking up their own minds' It's amazing.
And long may it continue.

Shared with those who have the academic credentials needed to access some of that stuff, because after all, who else matters?

They've seen, in this very thread that you feel what happened to Jazz Jenning was unethical to the point of triggering, but it's okay for any other no named non-famous child to go through in your opinion.

Frack, it's good that you're pleased with yourself. Lots of encouraging PMs, I have no doubt.

Millions!

"hegemonic commentary here"

Learn to use your words correctly.

Hegemony refers to state and social power and dominance, not a group of women standing up for women and children on a woman-centred internet forum. You clearly have zero understanding of power dynamics and how they operate.

You sound like one of those MRAs who think they are some kind of freedom fighter because they argue with feminists.

I'd still like to know if you were actually triggered by what was being said about Jazz Jennings @Frackoff

I'm happy to have shared something some might find helpful.

Frack can you explain what it is about those four papers that made you select those particular papers as support for your arguments?