It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

Bravo Jean.

I've just been reminded that my nearest M&S that has always been split in 2 to have a women's & kids store and a mens & home store recently changed. Kids is now with mens. I'm starting to draw even more conclusions on their policies.

Well done, Jean Hatchet. That said, I can’t help feeling it’s a bit shit for the employees in these stores to have to bear the brunt. That poor assistant who asked “why are you targeting me?” has a point. She’s not the one who should be feeling beleaguered, she’s just trying to do/keep her job while the higher ups who dream up these inclusive policies never have take the face to face flak from all sides. And you can bet it won’t be one of the big bosses who gets fired when a transperson gets ejected from a changing room and goes screaming ‘transphobia’ to the press.

Jean Hatchet is a star.

If any John Lewis PR are scanning these threads, now would be a good time to mobilise your Comm’s team!

This ^

I spend a fair bit of money with M&S weekly. Correction: I used to.

Last week, I shopped at Waitrose instead and sent yet another email to Archie Norman to let him know how much I'd spent with his rival. He might think it a drop in the ocean but as PPs have pointed out, Christmas shopping starts about now. If JL can confirm this pronto, I'll be a complete JL/Waitrose convert and I'll take the rest of my extended GC family with me.

Just finished reading the M&S Twitter feed. The comments on that advert demonstrate the creativity and depth of feeling on this issue. I hope that some brave soul in their comms team gets that feedback to management. Some quite screamingly funny responses and BTW that ad is something else.

Did no one stop to reconsider using a rap song (one of the first that crossed over to main stream pop in the 90s)? Did no one check the actual lyrics? Hoes and or bitches appear in every verse and it's violent, 'lightened' by pop culture references of the day.

It's not just misogyny, it's M&S misogyny.

And on the boycott - firmly boycotting, also the shop in our local petrol station and no more M&S food on BA flights.

I’m going to unsubscribe to marks mail. Small protest but I’m sure they record these things. If can will put why in the box.

Twitter is still going strong, they have got some nerve to just not reply to concerns at all.

They never do. Companies tend to choose to reply to just the ‘i think you’re brilliant’ and ‘I only got 4 prawns in my ready made paella (otherwise I think you are brilliant)’.

Part of making toilets gender neutral seems to include not responding to complaints on twitter.

I've emailed John Lewis to find out what their policy is but not had a response yet.

I told DM not to buy me a voucher from M&S for Christmas this year and explained why. She's off to do her shopping this week and is heading to M&S to have a chat with their staff. She is not one for campaigns but is furious about this.

I've had a holding response from JL Director Relations department saying they're looking into my query about their changing room policy and will be in touch again soon.

I'll report back if I hear more.

That’s great, thanks. Let us know when you have the reply.

Ooh well done, let us know if they come back to you!

Great effort from Jean!!

Someone has replied and suggested an online protest against M&S policy!

Basically as women’s safety can no longer be guaranteed in store a mass purchase and return protest might be an idea.

Any thoughts?

I've had a holding response from JL Director Relations department saying they're looking into my query about their changing room policy and will be in touch again soon.

Ooh, do keep us updated!!

Sexnotgender
That’s what I said I felt like doing several days ago. I think it was on this thread.

What do you have in mind? It has to be achievable for women, like myself, who have limited energy. But maybe others could make if more elaborate if required?

Ah I’ve not read the full thread, just dipped in and out as sick teething baby allowed!

It’s a great idea.

Obviously don’t want it to cost anyone anything so purchases would have to be over the minimum order for free delivery threshold.

I’m thinking just order a bunch of underwear. Preferably multi pack stuff that would need repacking on return.

Return as obviously unsuitable.

Just make a nuisance of ourselves generally.

If anyone has shares in M and S then it might be an idea to look into applying to be part of their Share Holders Panel.

It seems the perfect place to raise concerns about the potential fall in share prices/ profits that alienating your core customer base tends to lead to.

JeanHatchet
20h20 hours ago

He said “We have had meetings. No men can’t go in the women’s changing rooms” ... I asked since when since the woman upstairs didn’t know that. He said “She won’t yet. It’s not out yet.” I asked for clarification “so you are saying no men - no matter what they say or wear can

Go in the women’s fitting rooms and he said “No. we had a few incidents in a store with this kind of thing with men and now we have said no - we have had enough. We are changing it.” I thanked him and said I hoped they could train all staff on this new policy soon.

Well, John Lewis it is then!

(As long as they're not pulling the "but TWAW" thing... ie they're not letting "men" in... but from the Manager's words, it doesn't sound like it)

I think we can all guess what the "incidents" that the Manager refers to were - but it seems Marks & Spencer want to learn the hard way.

John Lewis will be getting my money if that is an accurate reflection of policy!!

If any John Lewis bods are lurking... I’m sure you one who your core demographic is. Would be mighty foolish to piss them off.

I haven't read the whole of the two threads, so I don't know if this has already been mentioned (sorry if it has) but see also the thread about Samaritans sex calls. The number of them is astronomical, with some ex-Sam workers reporting 70% would be sex calls, and a significant number of them talking about wearing women's underwear. Not talking about gender dysphoria, but talking about how sexual wearing it makes them feel.

The Samaritans apparently make a record of all types of calls they receive - so they know the numbers. They know there is a significant group of men who not only get off on wearing women's underwear, but get off talking about it to unsuspecting, non-consenting women.

Anyone who thinks this same cohort of men wouldn't take advantage of the women's changing rooms in M&S is seriously naive.

John Lewis is interesting. They will have inside knowledge of the impact of the Ocado TWAW line last year as lots of people switched to their own delivery service. Plus they are owned by employees.

I hope they stick to their guns.

The Samaritans thread was eye-opening, it's completely crazy that sometimes 70% of the calls are from perverts. And the female volunteers aren't properly protected from it. Apparantly the number one favourite thing is to call and talk about wearing women's underwear. Just why? Why is this specific thing the most popular with pervs?

Not sure whether this is a good place to post this or not, but I spotted while online underwear shopping yesterday this pair of women's knickers modelled by what I can only assume is a man. I don't know how this fits into the trans debate, I feel like my shock and aversion to seeing this is slightly outside of the perfect legitimate questions GC people and just people! have about sharing of single sex species, girls sports.

It seems an odd and unnecessary thing to do anyway

www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-partners-5-pack-pima-cotton-shorts/p370268

I don’t think that is a man, I think it is just a thin woman with a slightly more prominent pubic bone, plus odd lighting.
There are pictures of the same model in the higher waist briefs.

That’s is strange model shot. Do you think they confused “shorts” with men’s? I searched men cotton shorts pants and al the others are traditional boxer shorts with er “space”. If they are women’s underwear it’s not unreasonable expect a women to wear them. Similar be strange to see a man wearing a bra just to tick anyone can wear whatever box.

M & S sent me an online survey today about Sparks in particular but how I thought they were doing.

So I told them.

At some length.