It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

so using your logic of men are pervs because they are sexually attracted to women

Oh, I do hope not. Poor DH!

It's really quite bizarre
I go to buy a bra
But good old M&S
Decide I must undress
With males if they so choose
My fitting rooms to use
They say it's to include
I must be an old prude
But I'm aware of kink
And that is why I think
Our changing rooms should be
Simply penis-free.

so using your logic of men are pervs because they are sexually attracted to women

This is such as fascinating and deeply telling comment, isn't it? Obviously nobody thinks that it's perverted for men to be attracted to women. There's nothing less shocking to anyone, especially on a website most women joined as a result of becoming mothers, than men being attracted to women. In fact the "mum" but might rather be taken to indicate a certain level of enthusiasm on the part of the majority for men being attracted to women!

So, then, what is it that this person thinks we don't approve of? Predatory behavior, most likely, and indeed, most of us don't approve of that. But predatory behavior is not baked in to being attracted to women. Why would it be? What does it indicate about a person that they assume that it is? Can the person who wrote this simply not imagine anyone being attracted to women in a way that doesn't involve pissing all over our boundaries and generally treating us with disrespect?

I wonder what action the staff took when this guy exposed himself in an M and S changing room?

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cctv-released-after-man-exposed-14449259

Every single time they try and censor a woman, what that particular woman has said proliferates throughout the stratosphere.

@Datun this thread is moving so quickly I missed Bickerin's post; I've now found it, deleted, on page 17. I've seen it multiple times on FB, credited to Bickerin and mentioning the MN deletion. Some have the link to this thread, driving traffic here.
For those who missed it, Posie Parker's FB and also ReSisters United are both public on FB. The post was shared over 200 times from those two accounts alone.
Sunlight! From the obscurity of a long MN thread into the open. Thank you!

discover.apester.com/channels/565495e348c41ff040cd95e9?src=channel

The last link on my post above is Loose Woman poll on "gender neutral" loos. Guess who is winning?

I spent £90 in there today and now I've seen this I'll be returning it all for a refund and won't be going in again.

sashh
I’d like to know which changing rooms. It just says “the changing rooms”. I find it concerning because it possibly indicates it hasn’t occurred to the journalist the changing rooms are (ie were at the time) divided by sex. Moreover, it normalises the idea of mixed changing rooms to the general public reading the article.

Someone posted at the end of the last thread about wanting to tap into the rainbow pound and being honest about no longer selling women’s lingerie. I know this was speculation as it is about M&S wanting to appeal to everyone.

Out of interest I googled male bras. There are a lot for sale out there. Both for use with or without imitation breast inserts. The bras designed for women in M&S aren’t going to be fit for purpose unless the male is smaller and wants one for use with inserts. I know nothing about this market but would imagine that to mean developing and stocking ranges in large back sizes specifically to fit the male frame with cup sizes of AAA (Im making that one up but I mean no insert) and a selection of cup sizes in between to whatever the largest size they cater for in women’s. And where would the client be expected to source the inserts? In store? Having checked, M&S currently sell post surgery prosthesis online btw.

Thank you for starting a new thread MrsSnippy

Thanks for posting the link @Lamahaha. Have just voted. Very healthy majority there, I see!

Mummy

You know I missed that, I made an assumption I shouldn't have done.

sashh
It’s interesting. I would have done the same but am now actively looking for the meaning behind what is written and said rather than making assumptions. Assumptions of decency, unwritten rules and respect are not always shared.

Ask to speak to the manager when you do it Minotaur, so they know exactly your reasons. If you're able to do it loudly in the lingerie department all the better. I can't imagine any of their lingerie shoppers would be happy with this state of affairs.

When I voted, it was 87% against mixed sex. That sounds about the right numbers.

I forgot to mention, my dh returned every stitch of unworn clothing I had recently bought in the 20% off. A coat, various clothes totalling over £300. I was intending on returning some but would have kept a dress and the circa £150 coat plus bits and bobs like socks and therefore would have kept maybe 2/3 from a value perspective.

Anyway the lady at the till was really nice and DH explained I was returning all the stock, not just some because of the change in policy. She didn’t know anything about it and neither did her colleague. Well done for not even telling your staff what to do.

Incidentally I did think it was odd after the recent refit in my local store that the changing rooms in the women’s section weren’t labelled as women’s. I don’t shop much and have only used the changing rooms once since the refit. I quickly and naively dismissed my concerns, surmising that it just hadn’t been put up yet.

Part of me wants to order thousands and thousands of pounds worth of clothing stock and return it all after Xmas in the sales to make a protest. I’m not going to as it’s just a little fantasy. A) because that would involve DH doing the returns due to my state of health B) it’s immature and unfair to staff and C) because of all the plastic waste.

Needless to say I am very angry. The decision doesn’t terribly adversely affect me in a physical sense because I could just order online and get dh to return the stuff. But I am angry on behalf of those women, who are more deeply affected and I stand in solidarity with women. As most importantly it is another layer peeled away from our sex based rights and ultimate betrayal by a much loved british store.

Had we only knew then what we did today. Bring back BHS. Rebrand.

Yes, I’m a life long M&S customer and have been making an effort to support it recently because their stores are so important to our high streets. They are quite happy to throw me and others like me away to enable pervy men and boundariless women and for woke point with beardy hipsters who will never shop in their stores anyway.

According to The Times Archie Norman is finding it hard changing the M&S culture. But they seem to have changed culture on this one. Pity given clothing sales are falling: Previous thread Jon's bacon isn't going to save them.

Share token:

M&S swamp threatens to drain Norman

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/oliver-shah-m-s-swamp-threatens-to-drain-norman-rgqsggbgt?shareToken=46306ea67c28eabf48b01fd44b8844ef

A London branch has a trans woman dra fitter. I remembered it being discussed at the time and searched for the thread. I also remember seeing a photograph but don't remember if that was in the thread or on twitter
I wonder how that's going. Can you imagine taking your daughter for a bra fitting to find they are not female. The fact that a TW wants to be a bra fitter for girls and women is a red flag for me
Thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3227529-Trans-unpeak

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

Quoted from the last thread but this is spot on!

Well that article was ummm interesting. The most shocking was the point on rebranding. If they rebrand clothes as St Michael, by the time this happens, the only people, who remember M&S clothes as that will be over 50. And St Michael for a country, which is a country of faiths whilst simultaneously becoming less religions is hardly going to sit well. Then there’s markets in foreign climes. Take France for example. French written constitution is based on being “laic”.

Lightbulb moment!

It's clear what's missing..... a Lingerie for men department. 'Speciality' undies alongside the boxers, cut specifically for the the male torso, with its own changing room and trained staff. They're right, M&S is not inclusive enough: men wishing to wear lace-trimmed bras and 'panties' currently have no option but to shop in the womenswear section, because the items they are looking are not available in menswear.

C'mon, M&S, get your act together; a male mannequin in corset and suspenders amongst the suits. Surely that would be seen as ground-breakingly progressive, as well as being a whole new source of revenue for you.

@TimeLady You should actually email them saying that, I bet they'd take it seriously which will draw more attention to how ridiculous this entire thing is.

Maybe she is serious? If men want to dress like FranknFurter then that's their business, as long as they try the garters and what have you on in the men's changing room where they belong. That would certainly be more progressive than attempting to force women back into the home so men can have our spaces.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn Fair point