It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

I caught the end of You & Yours today on R4. Apparently the businesswoman in charge of turning round the fortunes of M&S fashion will be interviewed live on tomorrow's edition. It would be good if the changing room issue was raised in terms of spreading the message but unlikely given it's the BBC

Is that a call in then? Oh dear - I really do 'feel awful for' her.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

American here. You're correct - panties is an icky word. Like 'moist' it just doesn't feel right.

Poor woman. What on earth has she got to defend herself with under this ruddy awful decision? She can't wheel out a stock reply on air without looking even more of a twit.

It's inclusive...

Well it isn't inclusive at all, is it? In fact you're actively excluding a significant proportion of women, and in a way that's actively discriminatory to certain minorities. Does M&S really want to stand on a ticket of 'proudly discriminatory since 2019'? Has anyone checked a dictionary on what 'inclusive' actually means?

We want our customers to feel comfortable...

But this is just bollocks, isn't it? Because many women are telling you emphatically that they are very uncomfortable about this and won't use your store under this policy. So let's be honest about what's happening here: you only care about some of your customers' comfort and wishes. Other customers can get stuffed. Now it's fairly obvious that the customers you feel should get stuffed here are all ones born without penises, while the ones that you're supportive of having access to women in women's spaces when they're undressed, were born with penises.

Aren't you in fact demonstrating you believe that mens spaces and women's spaces primarily belong to people who were born biologically male, and that people born biologically female must accept whatever is left over to them when the male born people have their needs met?

How does it go again...? This isn't just sexism, this is M&S sexism.

JHB will eat her.

Who is JHB? I can't for the life of me think who or what programme it is.

JHB = Julia Hartley Brewer

Sadly it's not JHB tomorrow, Michelle, and I don't think it's a call in, Fekko. However, we can email or telephone the programme with our views / questions. I can't provide a link to the contact details on my phone but they are easily findable on the BBC website. You & Yours is the BBC'S radio consumer affairs programme so the subject seems to be very relevant.

On R4 at 12.18 tomorrow, Raindrops. The interview is tied to the release of the latest M&S financial results.(Before my correction that said the last M&S financial results. Oh dear if that is correct ...)

Have emailed

@Raindrops17

You are doing great. Flowers emoji from a random on the internet does not make up for lack of support from your mum.... Just someone has read and sympathises.

Going to read more of thread now and consider an email.

Well, I think John Lewis and Waitrose will be picking up all that custom I had with M&S.

i just spoke to JL customer services and asked about their changing rooms and in particular whether men would be admitted to the lingerie fitting rooms to try on underwear.

They said no. They have a strict policy that the men use the men's changing rooms and the women use the women's. They said 'there is no inbetween', the policy applies to all stores and if I had any concerns at all I should speak to a member of staff.

Unfortunately I don’t think Ocado will be much use on this, or want to get involved. They had their own outbreak of woke over the Primesight billboard issue. They apparently find the dictionary definition of “woman” offensive.

And I hate to be negative but how many Mumsnetters kept up the Ocado boycott?
This is why it's better to take them to court. For every individual fervently boycotting there are ten more who don't care enough.

Someone is just arguing with me on Twitter that self ID is a protected characteristic, but they have quoted, (1) A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

So just putting a dress on isn't enough because dresses are gender not sex.

Has anyone had a non scripted email yet?

I still have had no response to my second email asking how women having no changing rooms vs men having 2 is being inclusive

Seems like markies are ignoring their customers in the hope it will blow over.

It seems

Not answering emails and questions

Nothing here, they have not responded at all to my second email. Looks like I will have to try my one.simple.question.per.email.every.day policy

So relieved about that answer from John Lewis Critical I spend so much time in there, I'd be really annoyed if I had to boycott it.

Quick - I’m about the be chugged by Shelter. What’s their stance on mixed sex accommodation?

I abandoned Marks for JL a long time ago, mainly because it’s shit.

This is just another nail in the coffin of abysmal management.

If they can’t get it together over the next 5 years they will be relegated to food stores with underwear.

Can someone who’s had an official reply quote it on the poll thread? People seem to think it’s mixed apart from the lingerie rooms which are single sex. They are not that’s point!

sashh self I’d would give rise to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. If a man self IDs as a woman it would be unlawful discrimination to behaviour them entry to men’s single sex spaces. A man who self IDs as a woman must be allowed to use the men’s changing room. They are not allowed to use the female changing room as they have not changed sex.

sashh

It means they can't be discriminated against, like being fired, or refused housing, on the basis that they want to present as the opposite sex.

But their protected characteristic does not trump that of sex. Neither is it the female sex.

We do not discriminate on the basis of sex very much, but where we do it's for a reason. And one of those reasons is to protect women by separating men and women when they are disrobing.

A man with a protected characteristic of gender reassignment is not protected on the basis of their 'female' sex. Therefore they will be compared to other men. Not other women.

It's only if they have a GRC, that they will be compared to other women. And even then, there are exceptions.

‘To ban them entry

That's a great response from JL

Real Shame they dont have a very good range of teen bras

Oh I loved John Lewis when I lived in the UK! Might have to peruse their Christmas ornament selection now and place an international order...DH also likes their socks and such.