It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

I’ll just stick to Waitrose. They call me “madam” at my local WR. I’m old enough, not to mind! 😁

M&S managed to both assume my gender and marital status in their reply - hardly inclusive

Yup. Me too.

They know they are responding to their core customer base. But still don't care.

There's an AIBU thread "to want to boycott M&S".

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3735251-AIBU-to-want-to-boycott-M-S

@MrsSnippyPants
Excellent email. Brava.

Going back about 10 pages a woman described taking her DD into the men's changing rooms, making a man who was in there uncomfortable, and apparently considering that as proof that mixed sex fitting rooms are a good idea because, well, she was quite happy with the experience.

Tie, you have managed something few accomplish and it's to make me ask why men's feelings don't matter. Why shouldn't they feel comfortable in the fitting rooms allocated to them? Why should they be expected to put up with you popping in because you think it will be more convenient even when you can clearly tell that they're not happy? Do nobody's feelings matter but yours?

I hope he complained. I know my dad would feel similarly uncomfortable with having some random teenage girl in the next cubicle and he most likely would complain, though to staff rather than to you as he wouldn't want to make your DD uncomfortable when the situation wasn't her fault.

If anyone genuinely doesn't understand why the man in that situation felt uncomfortable then I'm not quite sure what to tell them. The mind truly does boggle at times.

come on M&S sort it out. every side bar ad on MN is for them at the moment and some really nice earrings have just popped up

just decide to give a shit about women's safety, privacy and dignity and then I go go and buy them

come on - pretty please

@YourOpinionIsNoted 🤣🤣🤣💪

*There's an AIBU thread "to want to boycott M&S".

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3735251-AIBU-to-want-to-boycott-M-S*

Thanks for the link.

The OP is definitely not the one being unreasonable.

Well,considering this is all about validation how about a cubicle in the men’s changing rooms labelled ‘Women only, absolutely no men allowed ever ever ever’ with a high pitched giggly soundtrack playing inside and a fluffy pink carpet - should do the trick to help the men folk understand inclusivity at it’s best.

Then the rest of us can be left in peace.

www.usdaw.org.uk/Campaigns/Campaigns-We-Support#SexualHarassment
www.usdaw.org.uk/Campaigns/Marks-and-Spencer/Petition

USDAW looking to recruit further in M&S, a company that has lost jobs due to store closures. USDAW also support campaigns agains sexual harassment at work, and violence against women and girls.
I wonder if shop stewards are aware their members are going to have to confront, and clean up after perverts?

Please could someone hit up that thread above with the stats in relation to male vs female instances of crime. I need to step away from this issue for a night as I am becoming too angry and starting to feel the utter despair wash over me.

I wonder if there could possibly be a connection here with NOT wanting customers' opinions. I got this email earlier. I was a member of M&S InTouch, which not so long ago was an active site with surveys, a forum where you could discuss all things M&S, and you were asked for opinions about the shop, new ranges etc. It was actually a pretty good site until fairly recently, then they redesigned it, stopped sending requests to participate, and I'd almost forgotten about it until the last week, when I was wishing it was still accessible so that I could post about the changing room situation. This is the email they sent today.

Dear
On behalf of everyone at M&S intouch, we’d like to thank you for being a fantastic member of our online community

As our need for customers information grows in size and variety, we have made the decision to use other research methods. What this means is that the M&S intouch community will be closing and that your time as a contributor will come to an end as ofFriday 29thNovember 2019.

Once again, we would like to thank you for taking part in our studies and wish you the very best!

Kind regards,
The M&S intouch team

www.gmb.org.uk/news/ms-jobs-threat-retail-chaos-continues
GMB in there too
unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2018/july/marks-and-spencer-distribution-workers-in-warrington-facing-double-hammer-blow/
Looks like UNITE only have members in distribution/logistics but they'll be at risk if M&S continue to wilfully damage their loyal customer base

I don’t think asking ‘Phil on the pub’ what he thinks is good market research. But then since they’ve just axed a load of their comms staff (yes because they will all be on huge salaries 🙄) good luck to them responding to all the queries about their fitting rooms!

Re Purple's post about the Cairo store, that's the laziest edit of a macro I've ever seen! They literally just stuck a bit about the Cairo store in above the boilerplate, even though the rest of it does not apply to that store, and called it a day. Lazy!

Ninkaninus
Look after yourself too.

Just emailed them. Was too cross to be articulate and kept it short to avoid a rant.

Hello,

I appreciate that you will be getting a number of emails with regards to this subject but I would respectfully ask that if you are going to send me the email template that everyone else is receiving, that you refrain from doing so. I’d rather receive no response than be further insulted by M&S.

As a Social Worker safeguarding is part and parcel of my daily life. We preach that safeguarding is everyone’s business, except M&S’s it seems. As you have chosen to revoke your safeguarding responsibilities, I will no longer be using your services. There is a dearth of evidence and guidance available to you with regards to single sex spaces and your legal duties under the Equality Act 2010. For whatever reason, not only have M&S decided that safeguarding is not relevant to them, they have decided they are above the law also. Outside these legal and societal responsibilities, you also seem to have a complete disregard for the feelings of your core market audience: women. I hope you have more compassion for your female staff and are engaging them in rigorous training to ensure that they are able to detect a person’s intent when selecting their desired changing room.

Yours Sincerely

You have to wonder why the are clinging to this so persistently?

It seems like business suicide

@Raindrops17 I'm very pleased to have met you on here. MN can be a great resource and I have been in a similar place to you and I'm thinking of you. I hope we can all be strong together. (Sorry if that sounds a bit wanky.)

I've put some pics on the AIBU thread. Here are the best two:

I'd never in a million years imagine they were WiFi enabled spy cameras. The more you know, eh?

My response to their email, copying in the chairman:

Thank you for the cut and paste response, not just an insulting response but an M&S insulting response.

You clearly have not understood my concerns as you have failed to address them.

I ask again -

Was an impact assessment carried out?
What was the outcome of the impact assessment?
Were women's needs considered at all?
Did you consider the impact of hidden cameras?
Who made the decision to make changing areas mixed sex?

You state that you strive to be inclusive yet are wilfully ignoring the needs of women from religious backgrounds who cannot be in spaces such as changing rooms with male bodies people. I have several Christian friends in this position, not to mention Jewish and Muslim women.

You may note the support that Center Parcs has received this weekend for their commitment to keeping sex segregated facilities.

I am frankly appalled that you consider it acceptable that a woman has to be leered at or assaulted before you will take any action. As someone who has been sexually assaulted your willingness to put women at risk to chase the 'woke pound' is nothing short of disgusting.

It is with regret that I now identify as a former Marks and Spencer customer.

Shitting hell, those cameras are scary.

I had stock response too - have replied with:

I'm afaid this doesn't answer my question. This policy excludes women who wish to be able to undress without the presence of male people (I believe this will be a majority of your female customers)

I refer you again to the needs of Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women, whose beliefs exclude them undressing in areas where men may be present. How are you publicising the fact that these areas are now out of bounds to them?

Sincerely

Ninkaninus come over to Style and Beauty and talk Christmas jumpers.

(Sorry everyone, I'll be back tomorrow.)

Well if they don’t publicise it I know some big gobbed Glaswegian (and her sisters) who likes to chat to people in stores who probably would.