It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

I sent slightly different emails to both the Steve Rowe address and the chairman address.
I got the stock responses which have been posted countless times above from the hapless Lauren and another unfortunate who got the weekend shift.

Round 2 emails sent to both. I've gone up a notch in tone and content.

We know some pressure groups and 'charities' have self styled marketers/volunteers who are inexperienced, unqualified and embarrassingly unprofessional.

They don't quite understand that while taking a transgender person to court under the charge of 'transphobia' will indeed hit the headlines, isn't exactly a bright move... or that IT types claiming to have had data breaches won't sound fishy at all with the public.

They give out duff advice and then companies wonder why they can't reach their target customers.

These will be future case studies for PR students, just like Ratners.

one good thing about M&S doing this is that they are a very large, very mainstream company and their actions bring the issue to large, wide group of people.

IMHO I reckon they were hoping they could just adopt this policy quietly without anyone really noticing.

I've had it with them. Nothing less than a complete reversal of the policy is going to persuade me to spend another penny with them. And that includes food. Which was a lot.

And shortly I am going to have some very interesting conversations with extended family about Christmas. I won't be buying or asking for anything from M&S. And I suspect like many women, I am largely the decision and suggestion maker when it comes to Christmas. I'm the one who provides the links when asked for suggested presents and I'm the one who gets my card out online and in store. No food, no drink, no slippers, no PJs, no flowers, no plants, no homeware.

You've made it clear what you think of me M&S. You might think it's just over a few undies. A storm in a B-cup. Well, it's not. I'm withdrawing my custom. All of it.

TimeLady the man who got me to see his erection while trying on women’s lingerie only wanted the thrill of shocking a young female. He would not have wanted a discrete , separate space. I can see that old school transsexuals, (eg same sex attracted dysphoric males) might want clothes cut for them, but they are a tiny number of people. The fetishists want the sexual element, and to force women to be part of it.

I won't shop there again. And I spend a shit load at Christmas because I have no self control which I will now have to do exclusively in Waitrose, which I always want to do anyway but feel I should support good old M and S. But they can get fucked.

I just can't imagine my poor great aunt's reaction if she was trying on underwear and she had to encounter a man in her intimate space.

Or my 18 year old niece who has additional learning needs and wouldn't know what red flags to look for. If somebody was filming, she wouldn't realise it was sinister. She can pop out into town and knows female staff and other females would help if she was struggling, but if she encountered a pervy male in a seemingly safe female space, she would be so confused and scared.

Why do single sex spaces exist in the first place, M&S?

It was a tongue in cheek suggestion tbh, I don't think for one minute think they will seriously consider a separate space for crossdressers, but I'd like to know their reasons why not, because on paper, it makes perfect business sense if there's a genuine demand. Surely such acceptance of crossdressers etc by a mainstream retailer is exactly what the woke are crying out for in 2019.

However, you know and I know and the rest of FWR knows that some of those buying and wearing women's clothing are doing it for the thrill of challenging female boundaries. But none of them can admit that, can they? And the top bods at M&S know that too, but they can't say that's the reason either, can they?

I don't expect a genuine considered response, but like others on here, I'm boycotting M&S too, despite having one of their food halls just a five minute walk away.

Why do single sex spaces exist in the first place, M&S?

It all comes back to this question, in every instance, every time, doesn't it?

And their school shirts are crap. They are like ironing bloody concrete crepe.

If somebody was filming

You wouldn’t see if if they were. They tend to use cameras disguised as pegs etc. Stick it on the wall, come back and retrieve it later.

There are some voyeur sites online that share user uploaded changing room footage. They also share intel on which shops have gender neutral changing rooms so guys know which places they can stick their cameras.

Great innit.

Just sent below to Mr Rowe. No reply Hello Mr Rowe

I am writing as a life long M&S customer to express my dismay at the recent decision to allow anyone identifying as a woman to use your changing rooms.

The exemption in the Equality Act allowing single sex spaces is precisely for this type of sensitive area.

Your aim to be inclusive to trans women is laudable - but taking the feeling of security we have fought for for so long as females is not the way to go. I would suggest creating separate trans women areas would be far better than imposing change on females. This will also prevent those seeking to exploit your new policy for criminal reasons (sexual assault, voyeurism etc) from being able to do so.

As my daughter comes to an age where she will soon start to shop alone I will have to tell her not to shop in M&S as clearly her safeguarding is currently not a priority.

I will be assessing whether to completely boycott M&S depending on your reply,

Best regards

Yep. M&S can wave bye bye to my mega Christmas spend, Waitrose will be taking the money instead.

I went into my local M&S at lunch time today and asked if the changing rooms where segregated by sex, the lady on the till said yes of course I said that's not what is being said on line. She called over the woman who works there, who said yes they are. In fact she had just sent a man away with a flea in his ear. She was quite indignant as there are women in there in their underwear. They have not been told differently by store management and told me they wouldn't check if I didn't mind as they didn't want to be told differently

I don’t think they actually understand who falls under this stupid umbrella.

Just posted this on the other thread too:

Apologies if this has been shared already. I cannot access the full article, but

^Struggling Marks & Spencer has reduced its communications team amid a cost-cutting drive to revive the company’s fortunes.

The retailer quietly made at least nine people redundant after an overhaul of its communications team in July. The move follows a string of oustings and resignations, including finance chief Humphrey Singer and Gordon Mowat, clothing and home supply chain director.^

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/11/04/ailing-marks-spencer-sacks-chunk-communications-team-clothes/

Forgot paragraph three The chain expects another fall in sales for the six months to September when it updates the City on Wednesday. Clothing and home like-for-like sales, which exclude new shops, are expected to fall by 4.3pc. Food should edge up by 0.3pc, and profits of £176m are expected.

And that was before this shit storm.

Honestly, disregarding all the concerns regarding rights and safety of women (as they clearly already are!) HOW did they not think that this would be a commercial disaster? They are telling their core customer base to go fuck themselves, why did that seem like a good idea?!

That’s really interesting Minsmum I can imagine a large store in city compared to smaller store in much more conservative area who know their customers needs wanting to have different approaches to this.

The answer to making a small number of people not comfortable changing in the men’s, is not to make most people in the ladies uncomfortable either. Or worse being told they are the ones who should shop on line at home.

Why can’t they use the lovely locking doors in the men’s? We do realise that the traffic will be towards the old ‘women’s’ rooms and not to the old ‘men’s’ don’t we?

Midlife Chic reviews clothes from Marks and Spencer, doesn't she? I wonder if she would have any sway with them?

And shortly I am going to have some very interesting conversations with extended family about Christmas. I won't be buying or asking for anything from M&S.

I spoke to my parents about M&S today (in their 60s). They hadn't heard about it. They were a bit 'it's PC gone mad' but I'm not sure they completely got the severity of self ID. Dad commented Sainsbury's is mixed sex and I tried to explain the difference although I was a bit stumped. He did say he would have felt uncomfortable if a woman was next cubicle though. So maybe the penny will drop if he gives it more thought.

Anyway I said I don't want anything for me and DC from M&S then mum said 'well you won't be having any xmas dinner then as I always get it from M&S' so they don't get it at all... anyway I'm debating not having xmas with them for other reasons but even if I do, if things don't change I will insist they don't include me in their M&S numbers food shop. They can suit themselves.

that sounds tough. I think you just do a little bit here and there if/when you can manage it, but if it starts to feel too much, immediately have a break. There are many women trying to fight this, some of whom will have easier circumstances than you do at the mo. So don’t be hard on yourself if you don’t have the reserves to join in. But of course, don’t buy anything from M&S

Thanks @littlecabbage. I will follow through with my second email still and definitely follow up with local candidates before the election. I need to self regulate social media usage though as it's so easy to get sucked into a dark hole with it.

I'm hosting this year and was going to push the boat out and get some m&s stuff... Not now! Pity. But I will shit in my hands and clap before I give them a single fucking penny.

M&S managed to both assume my gender and marital status in their reply - hardly inclusive