It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

If Marks and Spencers choose not to comply with the Equality Act that allows for sex segregated spaces, they need to be transparent about their actions. If they want to allow men self identifying as women into women's changing rooms then they need to be upfront and call them mixed sex changing rooms - as that is what they are. That way women can make an informed decision about the level of risk that they wish to encounter for them and their daughters.

Fair Play for Women explain the law about sex segregated spaces here:
fairplayforwomen.com/equality-act-2010_womens-rights/

am I missing something? it's not a mixed sex changing room is it?

Well how are you going to differentiate between a trans woman who presents as male and a man? It's transphobic to tell someone presenting as a man and calling themselves a woman that they're a man.

And how can you tell the difference between a trans woman who is there to get clothes and a perch dressed up as a woman?

Unless there's a magic non-trabsphobic way of doing that, you've got a mixed sex changing room. And I'm saying all that on the assumption that someone who alters their gender presentation actually, magically switches sex.

Are these cubicles completely sealed or are there gaps at the bottom/top?

Maybe we need more women "invading" the mens' loos and changing rooms so that they start to get it a bit more.

I'm starting to think this. It might be the only way to fight back. Plus, if all the pervs are in the women's spaces then we are safer there anyway! No decent man is going to intentionally choose to use women's facilities, I know none of my male friends or relatives would.

I'm seriously considering embracing this trans attitude of invading women's privileges in reverse. do exactly what I want. And if challenged declare myself trans or non binary. I may even negotiate a pay rise seeing as the gender pay gap would no longer be against me.

I can see far more uproar being caused by women invading men's spaces and crossing their boundaries. Poor menz.

so you really think that we - humans - cannot tell the difference between male and female people? Really?

I think, the fact is, that most people are too polite to say that it's obvious. This leads some people to believe that it's not obvious. iyswim.

Trigger warning

I haven’t been raped.

I haven’t been sexually abused.

I haven’t been assaulted or subjected to indecent behaviour by a man.

I don’t suffer from PTSD, panic attacks, nightmares or any number of violent physical or psychological reactions as a result of rape, assault, violence, or otherwise having been mistreated by men.

I still won’t for a minute play along with the sick game of systematically stripping women and girls of their biological identity, the absolute biological fact to which they are born and which absolutely shapes their lives in countless fundamental ways from the moment they come into the world. You cannot identify into that. And I sure as hell won’t stand back and watch misogynistic, narcissistic men attempt to muscle their way into our biological birthright. Women live, breathe, bleed, bear children, have miscarriages, yearn, scream, endure pain physically, mentally, psychologically whilst having actual physical bits scraped out of us, suffer and die for nothing other than our biological reality, as a matter of course, every fucking day. How fucking dare they??

I haven’t got any particular problem with being examined by a male doctor, but I can completely understand that many women would. I haven’t particularly got any problem being in near proximity with men in the vast majority of situations. I haven’t, touch wood, had personal experience of the horrendous acts committed by many men, the utter terror of that and the terrible repercussions after the fact. I don’t live with that horror. Doesn’t mean I don’t want protection for those women that have had that experience and who do need protection. Doesn’t mean I can’t see with absolute clarity that I as a woman have a responsibility to all other women, to fight, to shout, to stand up and be counted.

I want my daughters and their friends to be safe. I want their lives to be as free as possible from unwanted negative male attention/intrusion, and for their rights and protections as women to be safeguarded. I want them to know that in certain situations they will be afforded protections and safety (wherever possible), and that they and other vulnerable girls and women will not be thrown to the wolves!

Again, Marks and Spencer, SHAME on you.

I'm seriously considering embracing this trans attitude of invading women's privileges in reverse. do exactly what I want. And if challenged declare myself trans or non binary.

I've considered the same! Say I'm a transitioning trans man so I'm just gunna go in the men's with a she-wee

I am appalled that they made this move. Its an act of self-sabotage.
M&S should understand a majority of women, their core customer, feel the same. I hope it hits them where it hurts.

Great post Ninkaninus

Someone should send M&S the link to this thread

Why can't the men's changing rooms be the ones designated as "mixed sex"?

Are we just meant to stay at home ?

Of course! Didn't you know that we've put the clocks back to the 1970s when women's place was barefoot and in the kitchen? Cis women that is, as this doesn't apply to trans women of course.

I will be shopping elsewhere too.

JustAnotherMammi men would HATE this. Plus it has the added bonus of undermining this movement that has got out of control.

I can guarantee it would make everyone sit up and take notice, because men don't like it when women take back control.

Blas as has been pointed out a few times - why don't these men do just what you're suggesting in the men's changing rooms?!!

@Ninkaninus You need to share this on every platform. It's powerful

@Sparklfairy maybe this is one of the best ways we can protest. As soon as it's men's spaces being invaded they'll be more uproar, but one that'll be listened too.

I didn't know M&S were failing (I'm always behind the times when it comes to hot news :-)). I haven't been there for ages but I do buy things from them online, they are very efficient and good about refunds if something doesn't suit.

Blimey, I wonder how many other places are going to have unisex changing rooms, what a nightmare.

nocluewhattodoo, I too am going to Waitrose - and Sainsbury's - for Christmas food but ordering online for delivery; M&S don't deliver food or at least they don't where I live, only other goods. You have to book a slot to collect things. If I have forgotten anything or run out, there are two very good Co-ops within walking distance.

And I've just realised, this is brilliant! We'll declare ourselves as men and we'll have equal pay for the same jobs too!! Brilliant!!

really don't get the problem? shut the door, lock it if you don't feel comfortable take it back after trying it on in another stores changing room if you don't want to make another trip

Why the fuck should anyone have to take an item to try on in another shop in order to feel safe and have privacy? Have a word with yourself!!

Here's a solution. How about the MEN take items into the MEN'S changing room, and use the much discussed door locks if they're worried by other MEN?

I know that won't work for some, though, as it's all about the validation.

On another tack well done Center Parcs!, .

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

And P.S
Dawn butler. You are a disgrace. Men don't belong in womens' spaces, and they don't belong on All-Women shortlists either.

The department who have come up with this idea are also seriously deluded as to the demographic of the customers M&S appeal to - in the store in this town the customer is overwhelmingly over 65 (men and women) my parents are in their 80s, I know absolutely that there is no way my dm would want to use the same changing area as men to try on her per una skirts, equally I know that my df would rather stick pins in his eyes than share a area with a breastfeeding woman trying nursing bras, I think if Edinburgh Woollen Mill had a decent marketing department they could snatch all these customers and turn their fortunes around.

having why would a biological man need to use the ladies?

And that Canadian person is Yaniv. Google them - they're the kind of individual who would expect you to give them a bra fitting.

JustAnotherMammi I'm going to spend my evening thinking of every possible male privilege and claim it as my own in the interests of inclusion

But yes, you just know that as soon as we reverse what's been happening to us back onto the men, suddenly there will be uproar. But you know, we're only following the rules the menz told us to For years we have been saying that this is simply an excuse for men to encroach on women's spaces. Id love to see the inevitable national tantrum when we do the same right back at them.

Brilliant post Ninkaninus

When are these companies going to wake up to the fact that they’re bending over to the very tiny minority and alienating everyone else. I’m outraged!

Or the ‘woman’ in the shelter for vulnerable women...also in Canada, that brave new world.