It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

I'm not watching but have kept an eye on the corresponding FB post and comments TheShoesa - it really seems poorly reported, people seem under the impression that it's a unisex space for all, rather than predatory men choosing to go into women's spaces. It's not being made clear what the policy is at all

NekoShiro
If fashion brands want to implement mixed sex changing rooms then that's their choice. Women can make an informed choice about whether they want to take a risk or shop elsewhere. But if a retailer tells women that their bra fitting will be in a women's changing room, then she finds out that her conversation is being shared with the creepy male in the next cubicle, that's gross and unacceptable.

I do wonder how much these retailers actually consult their customers - or maybe online is so much more of their business now that shops (and women shoppers) just don't matter?

Just realised I’ve called the transwomen a he in typing so fast that’s probable why not the context. But who is so quick of the mark? Why not allow the post to be edited can I repost original and change he to she.

When MN delete without pointing out the reason it’s difficult to know what the problem was and not do it again.

Perhaps a 'Hampstead swimming pond' style visit of women and toddlers to M&S men's changing rooms nationwide? After all, it is wherever we feel comfy.

Well if this is the way stores are going, they need to find ways to stop/punish/shame men who will take advantage of easy access to women and girls.

A vast number of men perv on, film, follow, harass, intimidate, record, photograph, upskirt, assault and actively pester women and girls at every opportunity they can get. Not just a few bad apples. Lots and lots of men, every single day in every public space.

So until they stop, or are prevented, I want safe spaces away from them when I require privacy.

If shops are going to ignore this because it’s ‘easier’ for them, I’ll go elsewhere. M&S can fucking do one.

Hmm my first ever strike and deletion for pointing out why third spaces don't work and why women resent being - how can I put this within guidelines?

I can't. That's a truth we mustn't speak.

It will be in The Mail. This is a link to journo Jill Foster wanting opinions.

www.facebook.com/groups/166398616795827/?fref=nf

Akire

It's very likely that one of the (cough) external "watchers" of FWR was monitoring this thread and immediately dobbed you in for 'misgendering'.

Well they are a bit late with their official response, ours closes on Tuesday and staff were given several months notice.

Oh, I see mixed changing rooms. How will that make a difference when they will be closed
Aren't they bankrupt?

Perspicacia yes. Great idea. And many’s the time I’ve had to feed a hungry baby in a women’s changing rooms if we are out and about..in an emergency I have whipped out a changing mat and changed a nappy on the floor of a women’s changing room too.

Men will have to deal with that in their M&S changing space.

I’m sure they’ll want to be inclusive of all that in their male single-sex spaces and places every bit as much as women do

I DO NOT CONSENT TO MEN IN MY SPACE.

MY DAUGHTERS DO NOT CONSENT.

WOMEN OF FAITH DO NOT CONSENT.

YOUR MOTHER/WIFE/DAUGHTER/SISTER MUST HAVE ABSOLUTE PROTECTION, SAFETY AND SAFEGUARDING.

WOMEN’S SPACES DO NOT EXIST FOR THE USAGE OF MALES AT THE COST OF SAFETY AND PRIVACY FOR WOMEN AND GIRLS.

From now on I will have to type he/she in every post just cover self from accidental misgendering someone and getting a ban.

Akire I didn't accidentally use a stray pronoun and that still wasn't enough.

The jouno FB thread says pretty much what it says here.

Some women: I hate this, no, not under any circumstances

Some women: I don't care, doesn't bother men

A lot of men (for some reason): stupid women not embracing the removal of their single sex space

M&S if you actually care about customer choice, the bloody obvious response to the above is:

female single sex
gender neutral (plenty of people happy to use this from the comments)
male single sex.

That's choice. Extended equally to all, not making it clear that some customer's needs and feelings matter and others don't.

I actually don’t give two hoots about how other people identify. Rock on.

I don’t want males in single sex spaces designed and allocated for females.

If they are mixed sex, then fine. Be clear and honest, label them as mixed sex. I can choose to avoid them.

Nice comment on that long twitter thread:
This isn't just a PR disaster - it's an M & S PR disaster.

It’s an M & S PR disaster. 😂😂😂 brilliant.

M&S could just announce some Unisex for all those not bothered

Yes but that would not do for people who have decided that today, they feel like women. They don't want to go to an unisex or mixed changing room, they want to go to single sex women's one.

I can’t believe that @BickerinBrattle’s fantastic post has been deleted. Very glad I got a screenshot, to shamelessly use it myself.

Agreed. I also got a screenshot.

Yes but that would not do for people who have decided that today, they feel like women. They don't want to go to an unisex or mixed changing room, they want to go to single sex women's one.

And that's ultimately the issue. This is sold to us as "men are so unaccepting of transwomen that TW are unsafe in men's spaces and they identify as women so they will now have access to the women's spaces". But when we point out that there are other options which don't require opening up women's spaces - third spaces, work with men to make them more accepting or whatever - it's still not enough. They don't want third spaces, they want to use the women's. Because by and large, this isn't about transwomen's safety. It's about their validation as female. The fact that it has now caused a genuine problem for women's safety, privacy and dignity is brushed aside, as we're seeing. And that's why some of us are so insistent that it's absolutely plain that this is men's feelings being prioritised over women's safety, and why we're so fucking pissed off by it.

Perhaps a 'Hampstead swimming pond' style visit of women and toddlers to M&S men's changing rooms nationwide? After all, it is wherever we feel comfy

Unless I've misunderstood - There won't be men's and women's changing rooms but all will be unisex.

shearwater
M & S would never dare be honest and call them mixed sex changing rooms - a large percentage of their customer base wouldn't use them - especially for bra fittings. They have to lie to women that they are in an all female environment.

@MNHQ your moderation on this thread is disgusting, quite frankly. You have deleted measured posts containing only factual information.

WHY are you so opposed to the truth and so wedded to compelled speech? Why are you, of all people/organisations/concepts, so reluctant to stand up for women and allow them to speak their own truth?

I can’t believe that excellent post by Bickerin was deleted.
Also got screen shots
Most people on that FB group thread are woke or don’t care