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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

1000 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 31/10/2019 13:30

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen
OP posts:
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6
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/11/2019 09:49

There are two large ones near me. Often frequented by groups of women shopping up a storm - women from the ME and Jewish women. Can’t see either of these groups happy about this turn of events.

Needmoresleep · 01/11/2019 09:52

I assume people get to their positions in places like M&S by being corporate. Right University, grad training scheme, tick the boxes on training, wear the rainbow lanyard. Woke gets you ahead.

However I am a customer. Shopping is a leisure activity. If M&S does not offer a good experience I go elsewhere.

ScapaFlo · 01/11/2019 09:52

Bicker that's an amazing post!

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 01/11/2019 09:53

M&S could just announce some Unisex for all those not bothered, those not sure where they should go, families with different sex children etc job done

Absolutely

Matereality · 01/11/2019 09:57

I sympathise with the LBC transwoman but the answer is for men to make GNC males/TW welcome. Use the male changing facilities please.

Ereshkigal · 01/11/2019 09:58

Yes. Come on M&S, there's a solution absolutely no one could take issue with.

Apart from males who want to use specifically women's facilities, with women, regardless of what those women feel about it

CheeryB · 01/11/2019 10:01

"don't see the problem? If the cubicles are lockable, what's the issue? They're not going to jump over the cubicle walls are they?!*

So why can't men use the mens lockable cubicles? Nobody wants to answer that.

CharlieParley · 01/11/2019 10:03

So, judging from the posted customer service responses, it sounds like M&S believe they still have separate men's and women's changing rooms but now officially allow access on the basis of gender identity.

And the person featured on the LBC programme is one of the rare few males identifying as trans who is actually medically transitioning.

Regardless of whether they pass or not, a post-op transsexual is who most people think is being discussed in these contexts. And certainly they are often featured on stories like this. It's almost like we are meant to continue in this belief.

However, the new dogma has now gone beyond "a person does not need to have gender dysphoria to be trans" to "a person does not have to present in a gender-non-conforming way, change names or use opposite sex pronouns to be trans". All that is needed is to utter the magic words "I identify as..."

So, meet identical twins Arthur and Oliver. They're strapping, handsome guys. Six foot two, buff and sporting the best hipster beards you've ever seen away from TRA Twitter.

Neither twin has any respect for women.

Oliver goes to the women's changing room and demands to use it. They turn him away. He's furious but there's nothing he can do. Even M&S still say this is for women, so not for him.

Arthur breezes up to the changing room and demands to use it. Staff tell him it's a women's changing room. He nods sagely and says "That's why I'm here. I identify as a woman."

Now what does the staff do? This isn't what their training said. Remember the Glasgow Life staff? They had clearly been advised at the very least that only those males with crippling gender dysphoria would ever seek to use the women's, but most likely got the whole spiel about the need of medically transitioning persons to use opposite sex facilities.

But this as I said is now dogma - no changes needed, no proof of actually identifying as trans. (If you don't believe it, check out the Scottish law about gender representation on public boards. Its provisions beautifully reflect the new dogma. Or the "transphobic" incident at Glasgow Conservatoire. )

Arthur looks exactly like Oliver who was turned away because he is a man. So is Oliver, of course. But turn him down and you're transphobic.

No one needs to demonstrate any proof of their gender identity at all. None. You are to take them at their word. Nothing else but magical words. And no one has ever used words with less than the truth falling from their lips.

That's where we are. Men can utter magic words which are not to be challenged. Women can provide evidence galore for why they need female-only spaces and nobody cares.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 01/11/2019 10:05

To follow on from Redtoothbrushes earlier post about M&S' strategic direction, they really have got it wrong.

It's the equivalent to trying to win an election from the centre by taking your traditional voters for granted and trying to woo new votes. An example would be David Cameron pushing gay marriage to attract more liberal votes.

The problem with using the same approach in retail is that both the existing customers and any potential new ones have more choice.

Core customers will flee yet there still isn't a reason for younger people to shop there, it's just not their style. "Inclusive" changing rooms are useless if there is nothing you actually want to try on.

Evenquieterlife33 · 01/11/2019 10:07

“We allow customers the choice of fitting room which they feel comfortable to use.”
Except women who are uncomfortable with sharing fitting areas with men. They can fuck off, we don’t want their money.

Evenquieterlife33 · 01/11/2019 10:08

It’s just unbelievable how female customers are so easily cast to the side here.

CharlieParley · 01/11/2019 10:11

Wow BickeringBrattle. Brilliantly put. There's no "we just want to" about it, is there? We must give over all we have and you've laid out just how insidious the rhetoric is.

CharlieParley · 01/11/2019 10:14

That should read

Arthur looks exactly like Oliver who was turned away because he is a man. So is Arthur, of course. But turn him down and you're transphobic.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 01/11/2019 10:22

Anyone else just had a psst... your offers won’t be around for much longer email?

Psst... your stores won’t be around for much longer if you keep this nonsense up.

Sparklfairy · 01/11/2019 10:29

I would much rather share changing facilities with all men, rather than only the men who have decided they want to go into the women’s.

This. There is a certain type of man who will take them up on this, and it is never good. The trans people I know wouldn't even bother using the ladies, especially given the publicity. Imo they want to avoid confrontation and embarrassment. They are the ones who would take stuff home/shop online/or even (gasp) use the men's with their lockable cubicles.

So, essentially M&S has simply given the green light for creeps and pervs to do as they please in their changing rooms, to the risk and detriment of the majority of their customer base.

Smart move M&S. And right before the big Xmas spend too!

Sparklfairy · 01/11/2019 10:30

I meant IME not IMO

Ninkaninus · 01/11/2019 10:38

Apologies for the derail, but I had planned to go in this weekend and do my winter/Christmas candle shopping for this year (you know the lovely big three-wick candles and so on), but as of now M&S are not getting a penny, so I need some recommendations for reasonably priced quality candles with good fragrances. I won’t do Jo Malone prices, usually like to keep it to £12-15 per candle (I use a lot of candles!), so where can I go for this year’s treats? I need it to be clean burning (no black residue) and the fragrances can’t be too sweet. My favourite at M&S were Frankincense and Myrrh, and Mandarin, Clove and Cinnamon.

littlecabbage · 01/11/2019 10:39

Just sent a very long email to the CEO, explaining why my M&S boycott begins today.

Everyone who is upset by this policy - PLEASE email. They won't necessarily read this thread.

sashh · 01/11/2019 10:41

Ikea actually have some nice candles amongst all the cheap tealights.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 01/11/2019 10:43

And still, 490+ posts in and not one Cool Girl has told us why, if the men's cubicles are lockable, the men can't just stay in there. What a fcking surprise.

Sparklfairy so true. I have repeated this often as it's so true and especially fitting (Boom Boom!) on this thread ... a wiser MNer than me said in a thread a while ago that if self ID goes through she will start to use men's facilities because all predators will have a green light to use the ladies. The men's could actually be safer although still smelly but hey!

Ninkaninus · 01/11/2019 10:44

Oh my goodness I can’t do IKEA these days, far too much for me (I feel disloyal saying that, having been born in Sweden). But thank you!

I guess I could start another thread, don’t want to derail this one!

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 01/11/2019 10:44

So true I said it twice Confused

Evenquieterlife33 · 01/11/2019 10:45

The thing about M&S is that it’s very easy to avoid. There are plenty of stores offering what they offer.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 01/11/2019 10:47

I'll miss wandering around Per Una looking at items with this expression though ConfusedConfusedConfused

YetAnotherSpartacus · 01/11/2019 10:48

It's almost as if big business knows which sex holds the social, political and economic power isn;t it?

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