It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

The M&S underwear section is a sort of right of passage for many women, a tradition, and privacy from the opposite sex is required

I'm not sure what happens in the lingerie changing and fitting room, but in the women's changing rooms at John Lewis - they have two discrete cubicles to the left of the entrance for trans-women ( they say they have some long standing customers who " like to be seen as women", and who spend as lot of money in the store) - whereas the women are directed to the large bank of cubicles to the right of the entrance. So some measure of separation.

JonB and daddy why can't they change in the men's? If doors are lockable then I don't see the issue

Yes, they have still to answer this question.

I suspect because they cannot in all seriousness answer that satisfactorily. Because it is not just about comfort ad feeling safe, but about affirmation and thrill. Sod women feeling uncomfortable.

Honestly. It's difficult to believe.

Marks & Spencers the stalwart knickers and bras everywhere, are allowing men into the female changing rooms because that's what the men want.

Where are all the grown-ups?, Seriously, where are they?

So hang on, under this new arrangement there’d be no separate men’s and women’s changing area, just one block of individual unisex changing cubicles. Big enough presumably for two people and therefore a bra fitting etc. Is that right? Or is it one section for men and one for women and anyone IDing as a woman...? Former imo is okay, latter not okay.

I avoid mixed sex changing rooms and toilets so will now avoid M and S too. What a bizarre business decision.

Glad to see Fekko back.

Okay then - I hope M&S knows their customer base well (and that the woke brigade form the majority (rather than women)). I will be voting with my feet/purse and going forward will not be buying from M&S.

I like the M&S knickers and I like their food. What a stupid decision. If cubicles can be locked why can they not change in the men’s. Or why don’t the men give up some of their space?

Someone said upthread about this being a minor issue. But each issue minor makes up a major issue. I’m so tired of women being made forced to shut up for men. This isn’t a trans thread but a woman’s rights thread.

I despair. I’m also angry. My voice matters.

I just don't understand why M&S would choose to alienate 50% of the population (and the majority of its customer base) for the sake of 2% of the population in the name of 'being inclusive'.

Alwaysgrey

Hope you don't mind, but boosting your post - this is exactly it. Lovely to hear all these voices on this thread.

Someone said upthread about this being a minor issue. But each issue minor makes up a major issue. I’m so tired of women being made forced to shut up for men. This isn’t a trans thread but a woman’s rights thread.

Shout this from the rooftops:
I despair. I’m also angry. My voice matters.

M&S are prioritising men and changing women’s spaces in their stores to unisex rather than creating a couple of gender neutral cubicles for anyone to use?
I hope the 1% they are so desperate to please have deep pockets to counteract the loss of female custom. They won’t be getting any more of my money ( although I will miss the San Francisco sourdough😥).

I seriously am so angry with them. I was going to go in this week and get the beauty calendar (plus the obligatory spend to qualify for it), plus birthday/Christmas gifts in the next few weeks. I love their make up.

I won’t step a foot in any of their stores (including train stations) until they retract and specifically and publicly change policy in all stores to allow for women’s spaces.

This isn't a trans thread, it's a Women's rights thread.

I despair. I’m also angry. My voice matters.
My voice matters too

Sigh. Getting tired... *set foot in

Love the MRA visitors trying to come here and gaslight us about our own lived experience of men! I've never been groped, sexually assaulted, cat called or sexually harrased by a woman. It's overwhelmingly men who do this. Men. Males. The bepenised. We are allowed to say this on the feminism board!

Men understand this, when it's about a woman they own care about.

Good grief, that mangled up the links. Let's try again.

Karen Ingala Smith, frequently confronted with whataboutery and claims of parity in violence committed by both sexes, wrote an article called This thing about male victims addressing these claims.

If you don't have the time right now, one of the strongest arguments supporting the feminist analysis of male violence focuses on murder. There is no reporting bias because the victims are dead, there is no targeting of suspects in Stop and Search type scenarios, there is no question of believing the victim's account of violence.

The data supports the claim that men commit violent crime at a higher rate than women. Men are overwhelmingly killed by men. Women are overwhelmingly killed by men.

Interesting also the fact that women who do commit violence in a domestic setting are arrested more often - not less often than men - than men.

And for a rousing piece calling out this whataboutery for what it is - undisguised misogyny, here is Jessica Eaton with Stop asking me 'what about men?'

Nothing's stopping you visiting the shop, but if you're that fussy about changing rooms or find them awkward with toddlers just take the items home and try them on.

It may not have occurred to you that not everyone is financially able to buy several items which may not fit, in order to try them in at home. The point of being able to try things on in a store is being able to choose the item which fits, then and there.

And since women often have jobs and caring duties, the luxury of time to make a number of trips may be limited.

I spoke to someone who works at M&S the other day

Apparently they have been told that M&S have 7 years tops unless something improves

Not sure this will be the fix that revives the fortunes of a close to failure store

Well clearly they've decided against the modest range that was so popular in our local M&S with both the Orthodox Jewish and Muslim communities.

Also an account holder and I’ve just contacted the, to delete my account and my details from their marketing database as a result of this decision and stated why. Will use the local farm shop instead.

It's not even about sexual assault, or fear of sexual assault. The women's rooms are ours and we don't want men in them. Because we said so. That should be the end of it. We don't even need to give a reason. Why should we justify it?
It's just no. Not that anyone fucking asked.

This. 100 times in neon paint.

It may not have occurred to you that not everyone is financially able to buy several items which may not fit, in order to try them in at home. The point of being able to try things on in a store is being able to choose the item which fits, then and there.

Absolutely. So thoughtlessly privileged.

It's not even about sexual assault, or fear of sexual assault. The women's rooms are ours and we don't want men in them. Because we said so. That should be the end of it. We don't even need to give a reason. Why should we justify it?

It's just no. Not that anyone fucking asked.

Yes.

Along with that it’s about more than just this issue - it is about the overarching principle that biology matters, that women’s wants and needs matter, that we should be allowed the freedom to state absolute biological fact —A man who ‘feels like a woman’ does not actually change sex and literally become a woman just because that’s what he wants, no matter where he lies on the spectrum of ‘transgenderism’.

YY

Someone said upthread about this being a minor issue. But each issue minor makes up a major issue. I’m so tired of women being made forced to shut up for men.

So this.

When I was a kid, we had a cat. His favourite bed was the bean bag in front of the fire. If you happened to be sitting in it when he wanted it, he’d perch beside you.

Every time you moved, he’d shift into the space. Eventually you realised you were sitting on the floor and he was in undisputed possession of the comfortable seat.

We have all sorts of phrases in the English language to describe this action: little by little; the thin edge of the wedge; nudge persuasion.

If women keep drawing their boundaries back, for these small incursions, sooner or later we’ll have no boundaries at all.