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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

1000 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 31/10/2019 13:30

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen
OP posts:
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6
Ereshkigal · 01/11/2019 00:34

Your cat sounds much more gentle than the average TRA.

UnWilly · 01/11/2019 00:39

I posted this in March on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3535688-All-kicking-off-at-Primark?msg_id=85659547#85659547

At M&S recently with teen for bra fitting.

The cubicles are double ones, so a locked full length solid door with another curtained area inside.

I heard the staff turn a man away who was wanting to try something on and directed him to other changing.

He said there weren't any signs to say it was just for women and he was told that as it was in the lingerie section and fittings taking place there may be women in who may be uncomfortable.

He went off, but even assuming no dodgy intent on his part, whatever direction he approached from he had walked through several aisles of lingerie, so how he could have thought it was appropriate I really don't know.

Credit to the staff for stopping him though.

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2019 00:45

M&S have a culture war problem...

This is about how they decided to refocus their advertising strategy in 2017.

www.thedrum.com/news/2017/03/23/ms-advertising-rethink-will-not-see-it-target-mrs-ms

After hiring a new creative and digital agency in Grey six months ago, Marks and Spencer (M&S) is taking its advertising in a new direction, basing its strategy on “attitude”, not age.

The high-street retailer has had its fair share of us and downs in recent years, and while its food business continues to perform strongly, general merchandise is lagging. It’s now one year since chief executive Steve Rowe introduced a five-point plan to reverse its fortunes and, more importantly, reignite passion for the brand among its seven million ‘Core’ customers.

Dubbed ‘Mrs M&S’, this segment was categorised as females aged over 50, but it also needed to go after the 22 million ‘Occasionals’ (aged under-35). However, as Rob Weston, ‎global brand and marketing director at M&S said, “categorisations of 40, 50, and 60-year olds is just meaningless. What matters is the attitude”.

“There will come a time when M&S is going to have to choose someone to represent the brand on a single page, and just by the nature of that we’ll exclude more people than we include,” he explained.

“So you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If we choose a younger model we get told on social media that we’re forgetting about our core customer. And if we use an older model we get told that we’re reinforcing our 'mumsy' image. That’s a hard thing to break, but it’s what we’re trying to do.”

It expands a bit more but in essence this is a pure marketing decision about trying to appeal to a younger audience by promoting 'attitude' whilst counting on the fact that core market has shopped there for years and will simply continue to do so.

It should be seen in this light; they don't care about women they care about advertising and sales.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 01/11/2019 00:53

What's an LGBT woman? There are lesbians, and bisexual women, but the G is for gay men and women can't be one of those, and transwomen are male. Lesbians are not a threat to other women.

I had my first bra fitted at M&S. If males had been allowed in the changing rooms I'd have refused. Single sex changing facilities matter.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 01/11/2019 00:58

And if we use an older model we get told that we’re reinforcing our 'mumsy' image. That’s a hard thing to break, but it’s what we’re trying to do.

Because being an older woman automatically makes you frumpy is the underlying message there. Not cool enough for an ad agency.

Try telling that to Helen Mirren or Inès de La Fressange or Carmen Dell'Orefice who is still modelling at 82, amongst many others.

I struggle to think of an ad campaign targeted at older women, which wasn’t about white goods or washing up liquid, because, of course, despite having so much buying power, who wants a mumsy campaign appealing to older women.

It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen
RedToothBrush · 01/11/2019 01:05

Advertising executives are incapable of selling to women in a way that isn't grossly sexist and ageist.

I think that's your bottom line.

BickerinBrattle · 01/11/2019 01:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigal · 01/11/2019 01:54

I think this is a massive misstep. The young people who are transactivist adjacent are not going to shop at M&S. Late transitioning AGPs are the only likely market for them. Set that against your female market in the same age bracket, M&S.

mcduffy · 01/11/2019 02:09

Great post Bicker

Datun · 01/11/2019 04:32

Fantastic BickerinBrattle

Datun · 01/11/2019 04:34

It’s now one year since chief executive Steve Rowe introduced a five-point plan to reverse its fortunes and, more importantly, reignite passion for the brand among its seven million ‘Core’ customers.

Given there are at least 12 million unique users of mumsnet each month, I wonder how many of their '7 million core customers' are reading this thread?

In active threads.

Trending.

NumberblockNo1 · 01/11/2019 04:37

If someone knows any policy makers in M and S they should link to this.

Given all the reporters who read mumsnet, Im amazed more on this issue isnt lifted/reported from these type of threads.

motorcyclenumptiness · 01/11/2019 04:41

This is covered in The Times today

NumberblockNo1 · 01/11/2019 04:44

Oh wow. I take it back. Is there a way I can see it?

Datun · 01/11/2019 04:49

This is covered in The Times today

Excellent. And presumably M&S should have no trouble justifying why their bra fitting changing rooms are now mixed sex.

sashh · 01/11/2019 05:09

OK time to compare replies - here's mine

Thank you very much for emailing Steve about our fitting room policy in our stores. As a member of our Executive team, I am replying on Steve's behalf.

I would like to reassure you that all M&S fitting rooms have lockable cubicles designed to protect each customer’s privacy.

I understand your concerns about customers who might have difficulties locking cubicle doors. Our colleagues in our stores will always assist any customer as needed in our fitting rooms. However, I have made a note of your feedback for our Policy team to consider.

As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

We understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Kind regards

Julia Errington
Executive Team
Your M&S Customer Service

ukgift2016 · 01/11/2019 05:12

I am stunned. Why have things gone so backwards yet forward in other ways?

By promoting trangender rights they are pushing away women rights. I could never have seen this coming. Scary times.

Datun · 01/11/2019 05:25

As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

We allow males into where women and girls are disrobing. Because they want to.

We understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.

Intentional offence??? How come it's in the eye of the beholder for everyone else except women forced to change with males?

I was only staring.
I was only smiling.
I was only listening.
I was only giggling.
I was only adjusting my underwear.

How are they ever going to be able to say out loud what's 'offensive'?

Absolute idiots.

sashh · 01/11/2019 05:44

BoxFox

I have on occasion used the gents when there has been a queue at the ladies, I always shout to ask if there is anyone there and wait until it is empty.

I was washing my hands and a may came in, saw me and did that 'Oh shit' wide eyed panic look and turned around.

I said, "It's OK, this is the gents and I'm leaving".

Again this is a normal reaction from a male who thinks he is in the wrong space.

hopefulhalf · 01/11/2019 05:59

I agree 100%. Also I recently took DS (15) to get his first suit. The all male enviroment of the changing room reassured him during an unfamilar process of being measured, checking it fitted etc. Having women and or girls there would have been completely innappropriate and embarrasing for him. As for lingerie he won't even loiter at the edge of the department. There is a reason menswear and lingerie are usually floors apart. Very wrong M&S

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 01/11/2019 06:03

That’s brilliant BickerinBrattle, but also bloody depressing when you see how much the attitude from woke women have permitted this, from their ‘but they just want to pee’ mantra.

TrappedInThatBrightMoment · 01/11/2019 06:25

Again this is a normal reaction from a male who thinks he is in the wrong space

Which is why I hate the new ‘trend’ for some large business to have a mixed washroom area with separate facilities. I went to the toilet in the Marble Arch McDonald’s and walked into a room apparently populated only by women. There was a moment of complete panic before I noticed the separate male/female doors at the back of the room. Fastest pit stop ever, and washing my hands in a majority female area was weird, and uncomfortable

motorcyclenumptiness · 01/11/2019 06:37

Sorry, haven't got a share token
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ladies-or-mens-use-whichever-fitting-room-you-feel-comfy-in-says-m-s-czpvxhppk

WineIsMyCarb · 01/11/2019 06:55

Who did you email @sashh? I would like to do the same.

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