It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

Jon6b
The ONS include hospital statistics in their process. Perhaps you can explain how those are being fudged to create a bias against men?

Read what I said. You are applying connotation to my post where there is none. And I made no mention of sexual offences per se.

Jon are you really claiming that sexual violence is perpetrated at anywhere near the same rate by women as it is by men? Do you have anything at all to back that assertion up?

You're reaching here I'm afraid.

And I made no mention of sexual offences per se.

Right, OK.

The ONS statistic is that 98% of sexual crime is perpetrated by men.

For this reason, we have sex segregated spaces in certain circumstances. Which need to be upheld. Women dont need to worry about lesbians in their female spaces, because the evidence tells us that lesbians are not a danger to women. Therefore to suggest that they are is homophobic.

The evidence tells us that males are a danger to women, therefore they shouldn't be in female spaces.

lets not let the facts get in the way of an agenda.

But ... the 'facts' aren't satisfying you, because you're saying stats are wrongly recorded/reported/distorted by bias. I posted links above to stats from the ONS and MOJ regarding sexual offences, by sex. Did you not see them? So, what 'facts' is it you're after? Have you got any?

Here you are, Jon.

For year ending 2017, sexual offending, defendants by sex:

10,974 - Male
186 - Female

Source: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/sexualoffendingministryofjusticeappendixtables

Jon6b I'm just going to take it as read that you are unable to articulate exactly why it's bigotry for women to not want to share their changing space with men.
I'll tell you instead, you made the assumption that this was about men that identify as women. You wanted a gotcha, you wanted to berate and chastise women for being mean.
Why the fuck should women share their spaces?

If women who don't want to use a mixed sex changing room, buy things to try on elsewhere and then return what doesn't fit, is it not going to be really costly for M&S in transaction processing fees, staff time etc?

Oh FFS
I have a local M&S food that I spend a fortune in. I've also lost a load of weight (these two events seem contradictory but breastfeeding has its benefits) and I need to go shopping for new underwear. Where's good?
I also have a long memory, ocado are about £6k down on turnover for the last 12m from our household (chief spender for this household)

Over 60000 crap Sparks points collected.

Made my last trip to M & S food this evening, before I saw this thread.

FFS M & S 'everyone else is doing it' - a significant proportion of your customer base have young teens. They've seen this 'everyone else is doing it' argument on many other issues - it doesn't wash.

This isn't about 'trans' anything. This is about women. And girls.

M & S - when you say there's a choice of fitting room - this would mean you have more than one fitting room to choose from.

On what basis did you originally separate your fitting rooms?

And do you realise you've just negated any choice for women who don't feel comfortable with males who just 'feel more comfortable in the women's changing rooms'?

I'm tired of the 'marginalised and oppressed' trope - I could cite and point you to many, many 'transwomen's' blogs about their brave and stunning journey transgressing female spaces.

Mostly, strangely enough, they're all 45+ males.

Like the one who says As a pre-treatment trans person my body isn’t in anyway connected to my brain. My brain is saying “you’re a woman go into the female changing room” my body is giving it.. “Look! No bumps where there aught to be and a bump where there shouldn’t be!” And what’s worse is that the one that shouldn’t be there sometimes tries to wriggle out of it’s constraints.

wriggle out of it’s constraints

Wriggle. Out. Of it's 'constraints'

You need to know what you're doing here.

This isn't about me. I've changed merrily in front of blokes in my time, in car parks and on beaches.

I stand for those women who don't want to, or can't.

M&S have been Stonewalled, haven’t they?

Well they had the rainbow sandwich didn’t they (which didn’t seem to sell well). Wasn’t it just a LGB one though?

'marginalised and oppressed'

But women who have traumatic experiences of rape, sexual assault, abuse, harassment and/or discrimination, and therefore don't want males in their spaces? 'Hysterical' and 'frothing'.

And for anyone who wants to challenge my post that said 'this isn't about 'trans' anything. This is about women. And girls' and I then referred to a 'transwoman's' blog - I stand by my statement. This is about women and girls - and men's entitlement.

Of course it’s a woman thing. I wonder if any of the changing rooms are Men only - and the rest (Ie what was the women’s) ‘unisex’ 🤔 Like so many loos these days.

"Stay at home if you're that bothered"

Much like women did before female lavatories were created, you mean? Way to go, regressive woke boat

It's not even about sexual assault, or fear of sexual assault. The women's rooms are ours and we don't want men in them. Because we said so. That should be the end of it. We don't even need to give a reason. Why should we justify it?
It's just no. Not that anyone fucking asked.

Yep, Scrimshaw it's all about the frothing and hysterical women.

Males who identify as women who are not allowed to change in the same space as women *(ie males who want to be in women's spaces) - , discriminated against, misunderstood.

Women who feel uncomfortable - deserve all the anti-women words to rain down on them, prudes, transphobes, just stay at home if you can't cope with this, 'I don't have a problem, why do you?'.

My post this afternoon got deleted but here's what I wrote:

Eight years ago today I gave birth to my son. My placenta was retained so I was rushed to theater to be ripped asunder and have it manually removed. Once released I could barely walk but five days indoors I thought we really should get out, just for a coffee.

However breastfeeding was hard and on advice I'd not yet bought my nursing bras. It took days to get the timing right but eventually I made a mad and very painful dash to M&S (train journey included).

In the changing cubicle I had a massive let down and while desperately trying to hold breast pads in place and begging the lovely assistant to bring more sizes I had a bit of a break down. My son was screaming in his buggy too. Eventually I had to open the door and ask for help & assistance which I gratefully got.

The last part of my post was deemed ''offensive'' but it was where I asked how my experience that day could have been better if a man was there. Bleeding & lactating nine days postnatal in an m&s changing room in a desperate effort to acquire the necessary underwear to feed my son out of the house I should have thought of the unfathomably huge need for men to be in there with me?

I also pointed out that my son was screaming in his buggy and I had to keep opening the door for the assistant helping me. But no. Men need to be in there too. Fuck sake.

I spend thousands in M & S each year - or rather I did.

Boycott started. I always come out feeling like somebody's granny anyway. Time to act my age.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

X

There are so many problems in the world, can't you focus on something important hmm

The truth is self -evident, and becomes more self-evident everyday, and that is that women's spaces and women's concerns are "unimportant". But trans people's concerns and spaces are the most important issue ever - so much so that everyone else's space, privacy, right to free speech is utterly unimportant, in comparison. The hypocrisy is astonishing.

If changing rooms are not a big deal -why are we being subject to these unwelcome and forced changes?

furiosa

Fekko! (and you're back, as is LBD...sorry catching up, missed threads. You've both been missed...as are those who are gone and not returned)

Well I won't be getting any more bra fittings done at marks& sparks if they're now happily admitting men into the ladies' fitting rooms.

I got my first measurements done there, many moons ago and would have hated the idea of the space being unisex. I was embarrassed and uncomfortable enough at that time! The M&S underwear section is a sort of right of passage for many women, a tradition, and privacy from the opposite sex is required.

Also feel sorry for the bra-fitters.

I'd like to know M&S policy on their toilets and if that's different, why?