It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

@Jon6b
Please explain exactly the bigotry involved with women refusing to share changing rooms with man.
Why is that bigoted?

I posted on the "It will never happen" thread about a woman who was recently followed into a department store toilet by a man and then spied at over the cubicle by the pervert. The store in question was a local Marks and Spencers and it wasn't the first time that an incident like this had happened this year.

They know men do this kind of stuff, on their premises, yet they are happy to let men into the women's and girls' changing rooms. It makes no sense when the majority of their customers are women. Older women at that, so much less likely to be woke. They are going to lose a lot of custom.

That's incredibly sexist you know?!

I honestly can't tell if you are being tongue in cheek here or not?

Simply mentioning the LGBTQ community in a sentence is not Homophobic you know?! Pervs exist in EVERY community/walk of life.

Because that poster implied that lesbians might be perverts, simply because they are attracted to women, that is homophobic.

98% of sexual offences are carried out by males. Sorry if you find that an upsetting statistic, I know I do.

For anyone who would like to check the statistics - I just did.

20% of women and 4% of men have experienced some type of sexual assault since the age of 16, equivalent to an estimated 3.4 million female victims and 631,000 male victims.

Source: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017

For year ending 2017, sexual offending, defendants by sex:

10,974 - Male
186 - Female

Source: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/sexualoffendingministryofjusticeappendixtables

So let me get this straight.

A shop that sells foods, homewares, (mostly) women's clothes and whose USP is women's underwear - bras and knickers, is now saying that a bloke, any bloke can enter the women's changing rooms???

Because he says so?

Because some men are cross dressers, some hate their bodies and have gender dysphoria, some are AGP and some men just want to go in the women's?

RIP Marks & Spencers.

I wish to God you had taken a leaf out of centre parcs book. They understand who decides all this shit.

Idiots.

I just read bits of this thread to my sons (21 and 17).

They are all 'what about the trans woman who would feel really uncomfortable in the men's changing room?'

They are terribly woke, as are all their friends.

right- gonna quit M and S and that is a big deal in this house!!- food on a friday and sometimes other days- also kids' clothes.
fuckin' numpties

Apologies if this has been posted, but Jean Hatchet will be discussing this on LBC tomorrow morning at 8.20am

Target - a big chain store in America - announced a 'gender inclusive' policy with regards to their changing rooms in 2016 ... and guess what happened?

A longitudinal study for those that like stats:
womanmeanssomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/A-Longitudinal-Analysis-of-Media-Reports-at-Target-Stores.pdf

A collation of reports for those who want something quicker:
stacyontheright.com/catalogue-of-sexual-crimes-committed-at-target-stores/

This is not sexist, This is not hysterical. This is what some men do. And no woman is bigoted to say she is afraid of it, or she won't put up with it.

They are all 'what about the trans woman who would feel really uncomfortable in the men's changing room?'

Ask them 'what about the women who would feel really uncomfortable in the women's changing room, knowing it wasn't just women in there?'

They are all 'what about the trans woman who would feel really uncomfortable in the men's changing room?'

Also ask them why transwomen being made to feel unsafe or uncomfortable by men is women's problem to solve?

Where do they stand on third spaces?

Well I’ve just attempted to discuss this on the Boob or Bust Facebook page (I thought it was a MNer behind that) as there are regular comments about the poor quality bra fitting service M&S offer, and have been informed by an admin that “transphobia is not welcome”. There is no right of reply.

The reason transwomen do not feel safe in the mens room, is the exact same reason women do not feel safe with male bodied men (whatever they call themselves) in their room

So how’s the female bra fitting room attendant going to feel when she has to measure men up for bras in the women’s changing rooms who she knows are getting a kick out of it?

It’s like asking women security guards to pat down men. No way is that part of the job description.

How will the female attendant who knows exactly when men are hanging around perving and making the other women feel uncomfortable just by staring, be able to ask them to leave. She won’t be able to do that. Women all know that feeling and it’s horrible.

I want to be able to get fitted for a maternity bra, post surgery bra or sports bra and to bring my daughters for a first time bra fitting (which most of us remember as a massively self conscious time) talking openly to the fitter about what i need, without worrying who is listening in in the next cubicle and getting off on it.

Sorry but single-sex changing rooms exist for a very good reason. Men aren’t going to be bothered by this the way women are going to be. Why don’t women’s feelings matter? Who do M&S think actually buys their bras?

Further point- at quiet times M&S often don’t staff their changing rooms in my experience. That’s a horrible prospect when everyone is welcome in there.

Why do people jump directly to "transphobia" when women don't want spaces where we are naked to be unisex?

And look at this.

twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1189622824857722881
"A woman I know took her 15 year old daughter for her first bra fitting today. Open changing rooms. Mother daughter bonding event. She daren’t talk about this but she’s furious. A man was in there. Trying on women’s underwear. Getting his kicks."

I think the best way to handle this is for all the women who feel comfortable doing so to start using the men's changing rooms - you can feel "male bodied" for that five minutes. The men's changing rooms are always less busy anyway. Inconvenience male shoppers by making them wait and they will complain. And of course their complaints will be taken seriously...

None of this will start to reverse itself until men get pissed off.

It is also disgraceful that they dont have it up on the signs so women are aware that they may be changing with males. Like the sign that says that toilet attendants may be male. They need to say that some women using changing room are trans.

JonB and daddy why can't they change in the men's? If doors are lockable then I don't see the issue

men were indeed responsible for 86% of 'indictable offences'
But that isn't true. What is correct is that men who were caught were responsible for 86% of recorded indictable offences. There are many reasons why those figures are skewed. For example male criminals are targeted by the police for s18 and s20 violent offences, but white collar crime including fraud which in its many guises is an indictable offence is mostly ignored by the police. Carrying an offensive weapon the figures suggest is committed by mostly males under 25, but stop and search targets men under 25; that is why those statistics are also incorrect as far as crimes committed are concerned. We don't know how many women commit carrying offences because they are not targeted by the police. Some studies have suggested that women's violence against men is far more prevalent than is reported because of the shame males feel that they are beaten by a woman (it isn't suggested shame is not also an issue affecting seeking help for women), this prevents them seeking help against the perpetrator. Policing in the UK is not gender neutral and this has been recognised by many academic studies. But lets not let the facts get in the way of an agenda . . .

Still wondering why these men can't use the men's facilities...

So you are suggesting that crimes of violence, which will usually mean the victim seeks help from the NHS, are massively under-reported when perpetrated by women, so much so that the 98% figure for sex offences committed by men should really be nearer 50% maybe?

Mumfun
They need to say that some women using changing room are trans
They need to say that men are using the changing rooms.
As for teens asking how the transwomen will feel. Why don't the women's feelings matter? Tell them to get in the men's changing room.

I'm pretty sure most cases of rape and sexual assault against women are perpetrated by men.

Whilst we're completely derailing ...

So @Jon6b why is it bigoted for women to want their own changing space, and not to share with men.