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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

999 replies

gcnotterf1 · 30/10/2019 14:51

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 30/01/2020 23:46

And full of ‘May bes’ and ‘might bes’ and ‘could be seen ases’.

It’s waffle.

theflushedzebra · 30/01/2020 23:46

Written by the Crown Prosecution Service...!

Under guidance from Stonewall.

If you could just resist the opportunity to gloat for a moment, and have a little think about the teenage girls who are going to be forced to get changed in front of the opposite sex against their will - and you may realise what this guidance constitutes.

popehilarious · 30/01/2020 23:49

I quite like that the guidance uses the word 'henchpersons' though.

And has this to say ' Tell the students that they are going to look at some of the common ways in which bullies manipulate others and use controlling or threatening behaviour to maintain their position and dominate others.'

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 30/01/2020 23:50

As most of ten ROGD kids are natal girls it’s very unlikely that putting them in with natal boys is going to pass any safeguarding muster.

Middle age transitioners need to stop thinking about where teenagers will be undressing and leave it up to teachers, parents and yes, the law. Which at the moment allows for girls and boys to change and toilet separately, no matter what Stonewall have been whispering at the CPS.

GirlOnTheRoof · 30/01/2020 23:56

I must say I'm finding the assumptions about "Victoria's" transition status quite amusing. Please carry on it's better than a soap opera.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 31/01/2020 00:01

Who is Victoria?

We’ve got bigger topics than individuals. Safeguarding in schools, for starters.

wellbehavedwomen · 31/01/2020 00:02

Oh good, @GirlOnTheRoof, you're back. You missed my question last time, so I'll repeat it.

Vicky, here's what I don't get.

I appreciate that you identify as a woman. But you don't seem to identify with women. Women are threatened and anxious when naked and vulnerable around male bodies. One in three women are raped in their lifetime, and in an open plan changing room, when they have an expectation of privacy, if a male body walks through it could retraumatise. It's an intrusion and a potentially harmful one. You could cause real distress and suffering, and you will almost certainly have caused discomfort and unease.

This is not because of transphobia. It's because every woman on earth is aware from very early on that male bodies pose a risk to us. Your internal sense of whether your gender identity is masculine or feminine isn't something we can see, or recognise. Your body is. And your body, in contrast with your inner sense of your gender, remains male.

As a woman, why aren't you cognisant of all the inculcated, well founded anxiety women feel around natally male bodies, and why is our own peace of mind and our own distress not as valuable as your having access to our spaces? You were offered a unisex setting, but didn't feel that was good enough. You wanted the right to walk through a room of changing women to feel validated as one of them. And their feelings weren't of the slightest interest to you.

Please explain your thought processes here, and why you decided your needs mattered more than anyone else's?

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:08

@wellbehavedwomen
You seem obsessed with my body. That's just weird and slightly creepy to be honest. Especially when you consider the fact that you've never actually met me or have never seen my body (thank goodness).

wellbehavedwomen · 31/01/2020 00:11

Thank you for that, Vicky. I think you just demonstrated precisely what I expected you to. Most enlightening and informative. Smile

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:12

@wellbehavedwomen
Ditto

ItsLateHumpty · 31/01/2020 00:14

.... or have never seen my body (thank goodness).

So, you understand the concept of not wanting others to see your body, but can't extrapolate that to women and girls not wanting you so see theirs?

mummmy2017 · 31/01/2020 00:15

Yes, sorry we are obsessed with bodies like yours, because you have extra bits we don't want our children to view till they are old enough to deal with it.
Girlonaroof how do you expect us to silence a small child when they speak as they see?.

theflushedzebra · 31/01/2020 00:16

Nobody's obsessed with anybody's body, aside from the fact that the subject of the Pink News article has a male-born body- and yet requested access to the female open plan changing area -which we are aware of from the same article.

This is not personal - this is about biological sex, and changing areas divided on the basis on sex granting access to members of the opposite sex.

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:17

@ItsLateHumpty
I certainly don't want to yours.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 31/01/2020 00:18

I think you’ve interpreted WBW’s post incorrectly, she isn’t interested in your body, she’s interested in the thought processes that allow you to self-justify the invasion of privacy and dignity of female- bodied people and the erosion of societal norms that have been used to make female humans safer for the last 100 years.

Unfortunately Mumsnet rules mean we have to say ‘male bodied’ instead of plain ol ‘male’, or ‘man’ - this really shouldn’t be taken as in interest in an individual male-bodied person's body.

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:19

@mummmy2017
As you've never seen my body, how do you know this? Very strange claims indeed.

ItsLateHumpty · 31/01/2020 00:20

Eh? Does that mean you use the female changing room with your eyes closed?

mummmy2017 · 31/01/2020 00:22

GirlOnTheRoof either here or on a report you said you were pre op.
Therefore can you explain why?

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:24

@mummmy2017
Why don't you mind your own business?
These questions feel like an interrogation, totally inappropriate. Jog on.

theflushedzebra · 31/01/2020 00:24

What feels "creepy" to use your word girlontheroof to many women is male-bodied people seeking access to female changing rooms on the basis of gender identity. Vicky Hodges was offered a lockable gender neutral space - which would have assured comfort and privacy to everyone.

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:26

@ItsLateHumpty
No my eyes are usually open. That's how I avoid the walls etc.

GirlOnTheRoof · 31/01/2020 00:29

@theflushedzebra
Where do you get your facts from?
"Lockable gender neutral space" erm nope.

Langbannedforsafeguardingkids · 31/01/2020 00:33

Yes, it's creepy that you want to go into changing rooms where there will be naked female children, even though you've been given a third option which isn't the mens. Even though their parents think it breaches safeguarding, even though those children and their parents don't want you there and have not consented to any XY person in there.

I know for a fact that most Dads of young girls don't want other random XY people in 'women's' changing rooms with their female children. If you're in there then they should be too.

If they're allowing XYs in the 'women's' they should have the courage of their convictions and just make everything unisex so the Dad's can go in with their kids too. At least that way it won't only be the XY's who want to make kids unsafe.

theflushedzebra · 31/01/2020 00:34

From the Pink News article, Vicky was offered a private space, but not access into the female changing rooms.

At first, Center Parcs told her by email that “private changing rooms … are available for transgender guests to use”.

When Victoria asked if this means she’s not allowed in the women’s changing rooms, a Center Parcs representative told her: “Transgender guests are welcome to use the changing rooms that match with their acquired gender if they have gone through the full transition. If they are still in the transition period we would ask that they use the private changing facilities.”

Victoria told PinkNews that she was “very surprised” to receive this response.

“It seems like an error,” she says. “This can’t seriously be their policy towards transgender individuals using their spa and changing facilities. What the policy does is to segregate transgender individuals into those that have and those that haven’t ‘gone through the full transition’ vs. ‘still in the transition period’.”

So maybe "private" rather than gender neutral.