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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Always (sanitary towells) forced to remove Venus logo

287 replies

QwertySmalls · 20/10/2019 09:44

From The Fail unfortunately maybe someone can find another source but I cant see one atm.

Transgender lobby forces sanitary towel-maker Always to ditch Venus logo from its products

Sanitary towel pad maker now kowtows to transgender activists born female
They removed the feminine Venus symbol from its products after complaints
Butmany of Always’s female customers have responded angrily to the move
Sanitary towels with the new packaging will arrive in the stores by January 2020

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592413/amp/Transgender-lobby-forces-ditch-female-logo-sanitary-towels.html

OP posts:
Lamahaha · 21/10/2019 20:31

Here's the text to the Telegraph article, behind a paywall, linked above. Someone posted it on my FB.

“Always are to remove the Venus symbol from their packaging in December.

Always, the sanitary pad brand, has given in to claims of discrimination by transgender men and removed the ‘Venus’ symbol of the female sex from its wrapping. A trans activist tweeted in July asking Always why it was necessary to have the sign on their sanitary wear.

The tweet read: ‘There are non-binary and trans folks who still need to use your products too you know!’

One of the defining moments for me, and for most females on the planet, was when I started menstruating. I was 12-years-old, and it was 1974. It wasn’t that common for girls to have been sat down by their mother and told what to expect before it actually happened, and when my period came, I felt anxiety and more than a little embarrassment.

But today, things are different thankfully. Increasingly, girls are taught from an early age that menstruation is a natural process, and nothing to be frightened or ashamed of. Until of course, the extreme trans activists got involved.

Always replied that, “We are glad to inform you that as of December we will use a wrapper design without the feminine symbol.” The brand’s public relations team added that the change is set to come in late 2019 and that gender-neutral period products would hit stores in January of 2020.

Wow. If only us feminists could get a result as significant as a major brand changing its entire marketing strategy so easily. I wish it only took a tweet or two to pressurise advertisers into ditching sexist and demeaning images of women, for example. But, usually, we are simply ignored.

To add insult to injury, the announcement from Always that it would be eliminating any mention of the female sex from its products was made on “National Period Day,” devised to strive towards “menstrual equity.” Some trans activists even claim that trans women (natal males) can have “period-like” symptoms once a month.

Earlier this year, I wrote about Kenny, a trans man chosen to front the 'I’m On' campaign, which aimed to take the stigma out of periods. I said then, as I will say now, that choosing a person who hated her female body to the point of transitioning, as an ambassador for such a campaign sent exactly the wrong message.

But of course, the trans activists now have a stranglehold on much of our culture and legislation. I’m sure that those behind 'I’m On' felt that it was much more important to be suitably woke than to make real material changes for girls and young women.

The increased and wholly unreasonable demands of the extreme trans activists are usually met with fear and instant capitulation. We are told that terms such as “pregnant women” and “breastfeeding” are now transphobic.

It is not enough to accept trans women for who they are, but rather we are now bullied into saying that they are "real women".

But they are not. And trans men are still, however much this pains them to admit it, natal females. That means, in the immortal words of Alice Cooper: ‘Only Women Bleed’.

If this craziness goes any further, women will not be allowed to name ourselves as such, for fear that we will be branded bigots. We will be required to call ourselves 'cisgender', and refer to trans women merely as ‘women’.

Not only are biological men, including sex offenders, allowed in women’s prisons, hospitals, hostels, and refuges, we now have a situation, reported this week, that a number of police forces are recording suspected and convicted rapists as female if they no longer wish to identify with their male birth sex. This means that if a woman is raped by a man, who later decides to identify as female, and the case gets to court, the victim would have to refer to the man that raped her as ‘she’.

Women’s rights are not only being eliminated, but the right to be a woman, is being extended to men. This Orwellian madness has to stop. The likes of Always should not cave in to trans activists, but rather should recognise that the people boosting their profits and using their product are women - and only women.”

Lamahaha · 21/10/2019 20:32

Ooops. I'm wondering if it''s allowed to post entire artcles here, or if there is some kind of MN rule about this? I know that Times articles are posted with a share token. Please let me know asap, and if so I'll report.

tilder · 21/10/2019 20:35

I don't have periods (thanks Merina) but even my 6 year old knows girls have periods, boys don't.

I couldn't find confirmation of the changes on the Always twitter feed. But I did find reference to a new colour scheme. Not the green requested, but pink, purple and blue. My first thought was Hmm second was maybe the Venus symbol will appear on the pink. Just to make sure women buy the correct colour.

Btw I have huge sympathy with people who struggle wifh periods. Am not convinced a symbol on a towel is the big issue though.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 21/10/2019 22:03

tilder in isolation I would agree it isn’t, but this is not something that is taking place in isolation. It is systematic removal of women, of women’s spaces, of women’s voices, of women’s identity, of women’s biology.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 21/10/2019 22:10

And it’s also the contrast in attitude. Women have objected for ages to Always making nearly all their products scented, both because of smell and irritations, and get ignored.

A transman makes a complaint about something that makes no difference to the product & is immediately prioritised.

MonChatEstMagnifique · 21/10/2019 22:19

It is systematic removal of women, of women’s spaces, of women’s voices, of women’s identity, of women’s biology.

I think this is different. If all sanitary products had always had this logo on, then I would see your point more.

I'm presuming Always haven't had the logo on for very long as I have many different types in my wardrobe from trying them out and I've looked today and most don't carry the logo. I also have lots of other brands and none of them have it on either. So it's hardly erasing women when it never used to exist on at least some Always and other brand sanpro.

MonChatEstMagnifique · 21/10/2019 22:25

And it’s also the contrast in attitude. Women have objected for ages to Always making nearly all their products scented, both because of smell and irritations, and get ignored.

Yes, I would be interested to know how they conduct their research if it's telling them that the vast majority of women want scented products. How are they wording the questions? Do you want scented sanitary towels may give a very different answer to are you concerned about hygiene/smell when having a period? Many women may answer yes to the second question but that doesn't mean they want stinky sanitary towels!

NellieEllie · 21/10/2019 23:01

Customer Services at “Always” have got back to me with a stupendously appalling reply. I cannot decide what is worse, the spelling, or the utter lack of any attempt to answer the query. Here it is:

“Thanks for your email, and inquiry. I have checked the history of the products and see no mention of any wrapper changes. If their will be an upcoming change, this would not be shared with us until it happens.

If you would like to voice your opinion one way or the other, I will gladly pass that on to mae your voice heard.
Thank you for your most valuable time and inquiry. Please contact us anytime with questions or comments, we are here for you, !

Kindest regards,

Karen
Always Team
Need to get back in touch? Please do not change the subject line, just hit reply. This makes sure we receive your message.”

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 21/10/2019 23:07

They didn’t even answer me!

Beamur · 21/10/2019 23:07

That's a terrible response!

ErrolTheDragon · 21/10/2019 23:17

I'm wondering if it''s allowed to post entire artcles here, or if there is some kind of MN rule about this?

I think it's a general breach of copyright to c&p whole articles (not an MN rule specifically). But I think a few selected quotes are ok. Suggest you report your post and ask MN to delete it if it's not ok.

The times sharetokens are fine as that's a mechanism they've created to allow sharing of links. Subscribers can only do a limited number each day, I think.

Raindrops17 · 21/10/2019 23:22

@NellieEllie I've seen a PP share a similar reply from 'Karen'. Looks like a copy and paste job!

To be fair, I used to work in a customer service department of a company that didn't communicate well and we were always the last to know any changes (often told by the customer!) so I can believe 'Karen' may not know about any changes!

DuMondeB · 21/10/2019 23:26

If I worked at Always I would do the redesign in the pinkest pink shades I could find, just to spite them 🙊

acatcalledjohn · 21/10/2019 23:40

I also have lots of other brands and none of them have it on either. So it's hardly erasing women when it never used to exist on at least some Always and other brand sanpro.

So if there are so many brands available that don't have the logo, why lobby with the one brand that does? After all it turns out that most other brands are perfectly suitably for trans men and non binary people.

I don't lobby with shops which don't offer tall ranges/extra leg length, despite the fact that many of their clothes are too short for me as a tall person. Instead I shop at places that cater to me. Normal tops that look like crop tops on me don't trigger me.

This move by P&G is just one little thing on top of all the other little and not quite so little things.

It's companies like P&G appeasing a tiny minority. It's gradually losing access to single sex spaces. It's rapists being allowed to change gender in the middle of a court case. It's male prisoners transitioning to female to gain access to female prisons. It is reducing being a woman to the gender stereotypes of long hair, make up, dresses and heels. It's having a dick and declaring it female. It's telling lesbians that they really are trans men. It's allowing kids to totally fuck up their developing bodies. It's telling natal women they aren't women, but cis-women. It's telling people that not being attracted to someone whose identified gender doesn't match their genitals is transphobic.

It's woke, virtue-signalling bullshit.

MonChatEstMagnifique · 21/10/2019 23:44

So if there are so many brands available that don't have the logo, why lobby with the one brand that does?

I've already said I think it's pathetic that some trans men are bothered but was just making the point that it doesn't erase women as we existed before Always put this logo on their packaging.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 22/10/2019 05:41

Yes, Mon, women still exist. We just become that indefinable group of humans which make up half the population (and Always' entire customer base).

Yes, it's just one little symbol on packaging. No biggie. It's just a Masters track cycling race, who cares? It's just women in prison. It's just rape statistics, why does it matter? What harm does a little bit of compelled speech cause if it saves someone's feelings?

MonChatEstMagnifique · 22/10/2019 06:02

Yes, it's just one little symbol on packaging. No biggie. It's just a Masters track cycling race, who cares? It's just women in prison. It's just rape statistics, why does it matter?

A symbol on packaging that isn't on all sanpro and has only been on always sanpro for a short time doesn't erase women or put them at risk. Trans women in women's sport and in women's prisons does both of these things. It's completely different. If women argue about this petty issue, it takes away from the things that do matter, that do erase women and that do put women in danger. I care about those things, they matter. A logo on a towel, I couldn't care less.

forkfun · 22/10/2019 06:18

This is the response I got. Sigh.

Thanks for your email to Always.

For over 35 years Always has championed girls and women, and we will continue to do so. We’re also committed to diversity & inclusion, and after hearing from many people across genders and age groups, we realised that not everyone who has a period and needs to use a pad identifies as female. To ensure that anyone who needs to use a period product feels comfortable in doing so with Always, we updated our pad wrapper design. Our mission remains to ensure no girl loses confidence at puberty because of her gender or period and we do this through our puberty education programs, by providing access to period products with programs such as #EndPeriodPoverty, and by using our brand voice to tackle societal barriers and stigmas like we did with #LikeAGirl.

acatcalledjohn · 22/10/2019 07:50

With that response they may as well relaunch their #likeagirl campaign as #likeaperson so that it includes trans men and transwomen, as well as non-binary.

I really do hope women vote with their wallet.

Raindrops17 · 22/10/2019 09:19

I'm just thinking about the boycott of P&G... will it not make more of a statement to only boycott Always? If it's all their brands that have reduced sales then doesn't it dilute the message? They could just claim it's for other reasons (Brexit being the obvious one!). Whereas only a reduction of Always sales would be quite obvious the cause. Happy to be told otherwise but it was just a thought.

Michelleoftheresistance · 22/10/2019 09:46

Our mission remains to ensure no girl loses confidence at puberty because of her gender or period

Batshit. They don't understand what they're talking about. This references 'girl'. 'Her'. 'Period', as if it was allowed under the ideology they've just got into bed with. Always, you cannot support female children to overcome the born into disadvantages of their biology when you've just sold yourselves to people who insist you pretend female has no meaning and that it isn't possible or ethical to recognise a class of people by their biology.

Beamur · 22/10/2019 10:07

Quite.
#Likeagirl really doesn't fit anymore either by their own argument.
Nope.

DuMondeB · 22/10/2019 10:12

Will the new ones have footballs on? Or trains? Dinosaurs?

Always are making me feel thoroughly infantilised and largely ignored,

I currently use Always Sensitive, which are currently pink and flowery - will they keep the sensitive ones pink and make the new, manlier ones grey?

SO many questions.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/10/2019 10:29

Fishing rods, beer and rugby balls - if my understanding of what non women like (from observing Hallmark Father’s Day cards).

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 22/10/2019 16:38

I see someone/s has had fun going through the thread and complaining about everything. Gonna get RSI at that rate.