Trans chat

[Babyjakesmum]

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

So Mumsnet no longer feels safe does it? Why does women having rights and engaging in peaceful, sensible discussion about those rights (as opposed to posing with weapons, sending death threats, punching women and so on) make people feel unsafe? It's pathetic tbh. People are being bombed in bloody war zones and starving to death while selfish, over-privileged snowflakes whine about feeling unsafe if someone says something that's basic common sense and totally inoffensive to boot. It boils my piss.

Anyway, I see no reason why a subset of men are meant to be so special they can override women's rights to safety, privacy, dignity, boundaries an actual acknowledgement as being human beings. The rules apply to them too.

How are women supposed to respond to a scolding like the OP if the thread is still open to responses? Do we just thank the OP for it and issue long mea culpas?

This.

We get censored if we react angrily, or told by the OP "Aha! That proves I'm right".

We attempt to ask the OP questions, we get no answers.

So eventually, we get a bit silly (which hurts no-one). MN mods tell us off for it.

Honestly - who the fuck is complaining about such things and why are they taken seriously?

I'm also not sure that MN will be a better place without a bit Thigh talk, and the odd recipe. FGS do we have to completely lose our sense of humour because we are on FWR?

Hey ho - Friday night for me. Cheers FWR wimmin.

Purposeful derailing sounds like something Michelle of ze Resistance would do to stop Herr Flick taking the Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies back to zer Fatherland.

I stated what some of the obvious consequences of supporting transitioning have been so far, zebras.
Perhaps it was considered a generalization. They did not say which stricture I violated beyond repeating their desire for debate of the civil and constructive sort. Since I am not experienced in the formal rules of debate it is perhaps best if I lurk.

Honestly - who the fuck is complaining about such things and why are they taken seriously?

You know the answer to both of these.

Honestly, the humourless, over-pronouned, po-faced pomo world our youngsters are now growing up in.

Whatever happened to the good old British humour? Sarcastic and piss-taking, the humour I grew up with in the 80s - Spitting Image, The Young Ones, Blackadder. I don't want to think what that humour would do to the young woke these days. I'm keeping my kids well away from it.

I'm keeping my kids away from the pomo po-faced stuff that is - I regularly force-feed them episodes of Blackadder and Spaced.

I’m really confused as to what staying on topic for this thread would even look like.

Sackcloth and ashes, a promise to do better, and agreement that we are all actually very bad people?

Am genuinely and not trying to be snarky, MNHQ.

Too bad OP didn't come back and answered my question. I still want to know what undermining someone's femininity means and why this is an issue for feminists.

I don't want to think what that humour would do to the young woke these days

Only Fools and Horses and Friends get complaints, I imagine something like the young ones would be classed as indecent and Spitting image wouldn't be allowed at all on Television.

OK the topic seems to be that mumsnetters have turned into big fat meanies.

OP - I utterly and totally refute this.

I care about women's rights to single sex spaces - be it the new fad for placing male sex offenders in women's prisons, or allowing people with penises to go in the women's changing rooms with my 11yr old daughter.

I seriously care about the reinforcement of gender stereotypes in our schools, and the massive increase in children wanting to transition, when they are way below the age of informed consent - and have no understanding of the medical pathway they are being started on.

This video was posted on another thread - I think I'll put it here too - because as many people should see this as possible.

Mockers I haven't purposefully derailed anything! You'll get me in trouble with HQ!

Caring about womens rights = transphobic.

Not unconditionally agreeing that males turn into females = transphobic.

End of. As I was told on another thread today, the only way women can NOT be transphobic is to keep their opinions to themselves, shut up and do as they are told by those who know better.

That is the definition 'transphobia' now consists of. It's that simple.

Am I prepared to surrender women's rights and agree to pretend to a belief I don't hold, that I think damages everyone in society? No.

If you need to call me names about that, crack on. I think there are better and other ways to sort this out.

"Allo 'allo wouldn't be allowed nowadays would it? Laughing at Nazis and the Gestapo - you're told to punch them or milkshake them now via the medium of twitter.

MNHQ

I would be grateful if you could confirm if vickys post at 18:21 is now the case for the FWR board

I would also be grateful if you could confirm if this is the case for every single other board

It should be relatively simple as they are yes/no answers

Finally could someone advise me why it is impossible to tell posters WHY they are being deleted...dead easy to tell the reporter but not the poster

Thank you

Sadly, I don’t think OP is coming back, All they got from us is an idiom for - jog on. There’s tastier prey for the outrage vampires to feed off.

Just re this:
the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate

Yeah, that is in fact false.

The problem is that in the context of this debate, there's a thin line between passionate defence of women's rights and smug superiority/discrimination. Lots of people on here like to ride that line or just happily jump across it. That's why there are always plenty of post deletions on threads like this. And it doesn't help the debate at all because people on the outside looking in are more likely to focus their attention on the offensive posts than the rational and useful ones.

Purposeful derailing isn't on - can we stop now? Thanks.

I'm not being funny or nothin', but how is it at all possible to derail a thread where the OP has bogged off and is no longer participating?

There is no 'rail' for us to be on. There is no dialogue, discourse, debate, exchange of ideas, commentary.

There is nothing. Just a vacuum. What are we supposed to be doing, saying, debating?

I have read all until now and honestly thought the thread was done with!

So sorry if I have contributed to anything of that nature, was not my intention or I doubt that of anyone else.

Datun yet again you say everything so eloquently and just what I'm thinking!! Everyone else too I'd wager, How the hell do you do that? I remember a poster years ago called Usual who was the same....reading her posts was like someone reading my mind and I knew it was her before I even saw her name.

The thing is, fading, I'm wondering who is reporting posts to HQ? It can't possibly be the OP? How would you report people talking amongst themselves whilst they are waiting, very patiently, for you to return?

It doesn't make any sense.

I don't get it.

Datun I am not sure. I can well believe MNHQ are still taking pathetic complaints from the stunning and brave on Twitter. I also wonder if one of the said stunning and brave has got a job here.