Trans chat

[Babyjakesmum]

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

It was all so predictable wasn't it, following the Flora thing.

Now it'll be "Mumsnet users tell people to kill themselves" - when we absolutely don't. Yet, on platforms like Twitter & FB people routinely really tell others to "kys" with impunity.

Just wondering OP, if you have mixed views, what happened when you went on a Trans forum and asked them to stop threatening to kill women?

I will take a punt that this never happened

Teenage DD tells me to kill myself approximately every other day.

Testing, testing...

yawn

I await results with bated breath.

Sorry, MNHQ! Sometimes, piss-taking is all that's left. Even a newbie like me knows that.

As it happens, my personal views on trans rights are very mixed, I don't wholly ascribe to either side of it,

Yes well, I strongly suspect your mixed views suddenly arose after reading a few replies and realising that actually, there might be something to this women's rights being in danger malarkey.

There IS no counter argument. Be nice is not a counter argument.

Thanks for your reports about this thread. We agree it needs to come down. Do take a look at our policy update here if you haven't done so already.

Sometimes, piss-taking is all that's left

Yes. Humour bypasses are common among the gender devout.

'Men are afraid that women will laugh at them....' (I won't mention the second part though because it features the word k*ll).

Can we move on now? It's derailing the conversation and if we have to make more deletions, we may have to consider taking this thread down

So stop talking about it or we delete the thread...

And no derailing...what? ever?

Apologies

Ive put question marks there and they aren’t really questions, as i already know the answer

Of course it needs to be taken down!

And now we, and all the lurkers, know that take a long walk off a short pier, constitutes the abuse that you kill yourself.

Why does it have to come down?
We were only threatened with its removal if we fell foul of the line and more deletions were made.

Sorry, We aren't taken this thread down yet. We will keep on modding for now.

That was aimed at MN not Datun!

@JenMumsnet

Oh Jen!!! 🍸

It's not even Friday !

Must. Not. Laugh.

I'm so glad they didn't delete it, it's getting quite entertaining! And NellieEllie's post is worth copying and pasting for posterity.

It's a masterclass in how not to engage. And then what happens next !

I'll never understand why anyone starts a thread with "I hate you all and you need to shut up" and is then surprised when that initial attack is met with hostility in response rather than cuddles and offers of cake.

We're derailing the thread from its stated aim of telling us all how bad we are?

You also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use

Yes, Many of us here do know trans people in our life; some are even married to a trans person; and others have children and family members who are suffering on account of trans ideology.

When people start to try to police thought and speech then it becomes everyone's business; and what people do in public life is no longer a private act - especially when it impacts on other people, and on the spaces and services that have been hard won.

Nobody here is against civil rights for anyone. But trans rights so often demand centre stage and actively seek supersede the rights of other groups of people - and this is something new. And because of this this is all of our business.

and that is without even broaching the subject of how deeply offensive it is for men to determine what it is that constitutes being a woman or female in our society; let alone in biological reality.

Trans ideology in the the apotheosis of Identity Politics, and reveals most fulsomely the full nonsense of that politics.

Oh just a big fat THANK YOU, OP!

This thread is hilarious.

Did we get a confirmation that get in the sea is not incitement of suicide yet?

If it is then I have a lot of very woke young peeps on Twitter to report for TOS violations.

Okay - if this thread’s staying, BabyJakesMum please come back and talk to me and others on here who have trans siblings, partners, husbands, wives, children, nieces, nephews, etc.