Trans chat

[Babyjakesmum]

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

I haven't had an e-mail and I'm not entirely sure what I said to be deleted.

I think I compared OPs language to that of some TRAs which I guess could be seen as troll hunting which wasn't my intention.

The long walk on a short pier was mine. I later suggested that they take a life jacket with them if they couldn't swim. Both deleted. Are people familiar with the idioms of the English language?

The deletions are odd.

One of the deleted posts was a MNer describing the various sectors/areas that she had lived/worked in. (It was a response to the suggestion that none of us knew anyone who is trans). I thought it was a really good post and really can't think of a reason for it to have been deleted.

I think it was by TabithasMumCaroline but I'm not 100% sure.

Is sarcasm really a problem now? On a British based forum? Our sarcasm is pretty much the only thing we Brits all have in common!

apparently not. OP describes herself as "an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born."

Yeah, I’m probably wrong, it was just a stab in the dark (and before you rush to the report button OP, that is NOT a threat, no one is stabbing anyone here it’s just another colorful turn of phrase) I saw that but, being of a suspicious persuasion, I thought OP might be doing that thing like where I could describe myself as a 20-something young Heidi Klum lookalike brain surgeon and no one online would know different only kinda in reverse.

I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality
The only thing empty of any basis in reality is men's claims to be women because that's what they want to be. No amount of Clown fish in the world will make the human species anything other than sexually dimorphic, no human has or ever could change into the opposite sex.

That's reality & the only basis the "trans" issue can be discussed on. I'm in my 60s OP. Don't try & teach your granny to suck eggs.

My post was deleted for stating that the OP's use of cliches and over-emotional tone sounds like a bloke's idea of what a Mumsnetter sounds like (although I did even state 'I don't claim to know if the OP is male or female', so it really shouldn't have been deleted). For this comment the OP then referred to me as 'nasty'. I didn't mean to undermine your femininity, OP, heaven forbid! I'm just always surprised when women who call themselves feminists - especially the hard-bitten kind - try to silence other women talking about their rights by appealing to their female socialisation, and putting male approval before the dignity and safety of their own sex.

Why on earth was my message deleted? I simply said that Datun made a great post and shame on the OP for not caring about women and girls. That was it! WHAT was wrong with that @MNHQ?

Good question and strong replies very encouraging. Its brill that we can all talk with passion on both sides.

The crushing irony of truly believing that you can use femininity as a tool with which to scold feminists.

Take a long walk off a short pier is as old as the hills, and has never meant "kill yourself" - it's a mild "sod off" IMO.

I read this whole thread last night, before any deletions - nobody told the OP to kill herself.

Yes was very surprised to see a feminist accuse other feminists of giving a shit about femininity. That's basic stuff.

And my comment, fading, wasn't even addressed to the OP, it was to someone else entirely!

Wait....the whole 'being told to kill myself' was in reference to a phrase kids have said from Year Dot? Oh my days 😂😂😂

The crushing irony of truly believing that you can use femininity as a tool with which to scold feminists.

I got mansplained the difference between a consultation and consulting. And he got it wrong.

It was embarrassing for him. Much like this is for OP.

It is ridiculous Datun. Hard bitten my arse.

This is ridiculous. It's as though someone is using the ban hammer in the attic, and they've accidentally dropped it, and as it clatters down the stairs, it hits everyone on the way to the landing.

I asked for advice on the "pronouns" thread and now it's gone. The reason given is the original post, which I thought was ... asking for advice on what you do when your workplace introduces this. I'm so confused right now.

NellieEllie you said exactly what I have been struggling to put in to words.

All I can say is,
I blame Flora.

This is all just so silly.

We would genuinely love to hear a convincing argument from the TRA side. Don't you think it would be easier to just slip into blissful ignorance and not worry about male rapists in women's prisons/teenagers mutilating their bodies/women having bones broken by males in their sports/every fucking pervert having plausible deniability to be creepy in women's spaces?

I have been watching this debate for years now, and it always always goes the same way. Be nice. There's no logic, no reason, no balance. No one is nice to women who dare to say 'hang on that doesn't seem right...'

OP et al, you're building castles in the sky and expecting women to break holding them up.
And throwing your toys out of the pram when the mummies say no.

NO.

No.

I can't believe that post by TabithasMumCaroline is gone! It was quite long and really intelligently and eloquently written and I cannot think for the life of me what it could have contained that was offensive.

Apart from the truth, of course. Nothing so transphobic as reality.