India Willoughby v Woke Bloke

[twelvecolourfulbirds]

From Good Morning Britain. Possibly on this morning (it's just appeared on my Youtube recommendations).

My favorite gender is still "fern". Saw it on Tumblr, no idea what it's meant to tell you about the person who identifies thus.

Piers has surely had quite a bit of controversy over the years, so it's interesting that the level of vitriol this time seems to have taken him by surprise.

I think you're right, kittens. I don't think Piers can understand how someone who is as supportive of transwomen as he, could possibly be thought of as bigoted over any of it.

He prefaces soooo many sentences with I'm fully supportive of trans people. It's as though his position is born from a blind acceptance, rather than an actual coherent argument.

And now, he's worried that he will lose every shred of credibility, if he buys into the non-binary nonsense. And requires someone like India Willoughby to uphold his trans credentials, whilst denigrating the non-binary bollocks. (Interesting that India is about the only person who can do this, isn't it?).

When the truth is one's identity is purely a reflection of one's personality. You don't shift from one sex category to another because of it, any more than dyeing your hair a different colour changes you from non binary number 74 to number 96.

I wonder if it will dawn on him.

That's why India was there, to say "look I have trans friends". But if you've built your brand on being a truth speaking contrarian then you really can't be saying you believe in 100 genders because that's crossing the line from PC into bloody ridiculous.

I think I understand better why he's drawing a line now actually.

My favorite gender is still "fern". Saw it on Tumblr, no idea what it's meant to tell you about the person who identifies thus.

Well, I don't know about gender but the sex of ferns is interesting.

www.nature.com/news/ferns-communicate-to-decide-their-sexes-1.16214

I think I understand better why he's drawing a line now actually.

Yeah, me too.

And I can't think of a single other well-known transwoman, who he could use to bolster his trans creds. So India is probably unique in that respect. Which is very telling.

Maybe Piers should give that some thought.

Look around for someone else, other than India. That might give him a clue as to why blind acceptance of the ideology is probably not a good idea.

Taken out of context this bit from Errol's link reads as a bit too on the nose.

The two-step process involves a pheromone called gibberellin, which causes the plants to grow male sex organs.

Gibberlin.

So a fern gender is what? Discussing with others that want a different gender and then choosing who is equally what amongst themselves? So they are so sure they need a label but have no idea which one and so consult others to help them decide? If they are basing it on the ferns in the link then that must be it. It’s so fucking stupid.

Fascinated piece. India was great, shame they got shouted over by that smug little shit. Totally agree with Piers too.

Datun, Rose of Dawn could and people she knows and others.

Transexuals with genuine gender dysphoria, have a problem and are being pushed under the bus as much as women.

TRA ideology does not reflect their concerns/interests in the same way that MRAs don't reflect most men's interests. Many transexuals presumably want to get on with their lives and to be accepted by society, as far as is possible, as women.

It is curious how many of trans-spokespeople/lobbyists: Butterworth, Harrop, Islan, are not themselves trans.

Piers works in an industry where many of his colleagues and guests will be gay. He has also lived and worked in the States. I think, like many of us, it is important for him to be clear that there is a difference between acceptance of transexuality and calling out some of the madness. Navratilova did very much the same.

The fact he is being careful only emphasises how mad it is.

Its not going well for him, even on his own Twitter feed: twitter.com/benjaminbutter/status/1184248162862686208

Brother you don’t have to worry about the Daily Mail. You’re a little tyrant and we are not having it. Your agenda will disintegrate under its own incoherence.

So much support...

Ben has had a message on that thread from 'Trans Gloucester' saying 'thanks for standing up for your community.'

Pretty sure BB made it clear he is a 'cis man' and therefore not part of the trans community at all. Whereas the person he was cismansplaining to...

She can take cis and shove it up her...

Echoing comments above, the most striking and tediously typical thing about that was the three males completely dominating the entire discussion, even though the topic ostensibly had something to do with females.
As for gender, I'm not bothered if they come up with a few hundred more genders, as long as they stop conflating it with sex. It reminds me of when astrology was a big deal (or was that, when I hung out with people who were into astrology...)

As for gender, I'm not bothered if they come up with a few hundred more genders, as long as they stop conflating it with sex

The more 'genders' the clearer it is that it's nowt to do with sex. The logical result (if logic ever came into in this) would be that everyone would have to stop using gender as a euphemism for sex.

I don't think that's fair to astrologers, Cookieflavouredbiscuit.

I've never known astrologers threaten people with violence for not sharing their unsubstantiated beliefs. I've often thought religions could take a leaf out of astrology's book even. Yes, it is part of culture, yes many people believe in it, but astrologers don't show up on my doorstep to tell me about their beliefs, they don't expect my children to attend their services in school, they don't deman I 'respect' their views.

And right now I am much more kindly disposed to established religions than I am to trans ideology, and religion is the bane of my life.

We live in an age when 'woman marries ghost of Black Beard' (alas the marriage was later annulled as they didn't get on) is reported as news.

I give up. It will all come out in the wash eventually, so just sit back and watch people tying themselves up in knots.

I was pondering on this last night and the first poster who highlighted that the females weren't doing the talking really struck a chord with me.

When I viewed it from this feminist perspective, I thought it's the same old same old.

It just felt good for once that the ideology spouted by Benjamin and his lobby was being exposed for what it really it. Nonsense.

But now I sit back, think about India's hand on Benjamin's arm and how most women can't/wouldn't do that, and the dominance of voices from those who weren't born female debating an issue that impacts women most of all, and I feel the same old silencing from our own lives.

I seriously doubt the earnest female born kids worrying over whether they're frost gendered or fern gendered or freeze gender, and whether they've found the perfect name within their online community that absolutely nails their sense of who they are and their true inner self...…….

…..are going to find they have two minutes to spare for that kind of navel gazing once they hit their thirties and have a partner, kids, house to run, career. Because most women I know barely have time to keep up with haircuts and the washing, never mind whether they've thought of and shared the perfect capture of themselves in a word. And I suspect the male born people still doing this in their thirties are going to be either in the same place, or living in their parents' basement and interacting mostly with a computer world, and won't be marriage material.

There may in a decade or two be enough liberation for female born people that they get to do the basement lifechoice too, at the moment that's something more in the privilege of males. But the point is - this crap doesn't withstand real, adult life.

@Needmoresleep
Quite right, there is much discussion of the LGBT+ community just now.

Sad fact is that it is the genuine trans people (with actual body disphoria) who are going to be the real victims when the bottom falls out of all this. Closely followed by lesbians who are already being pushed out of the (alleged) community right now.

The LGBT community is now actively working agaisnt itself, it's an embarrassment. Pushed primarily by wee misogynistic gay men and blue haired "queers", all of them inflated by their own intolerance of others and full of arrogance at their own self righteousness.

(And before anyone starts... I am a lesbian have found myself on the wrong end of the homophobia that is now coming from within LGBT circles)

Piers has surely had quite a bit of controversy over the years, so it's interesting that the level of vitriol this time seems to have taken him by surprise.

I think this is because he has two modes: 1. winding people up and 2. sensible. He expects that he'll get all kinds of shit in mode 1, but spouting controversial views is how he makes a lucrative living. With mode 2 he expects to get general agreement (although not necessarily from nutters). I think his surprise comes from him coming out with common sense and finding he's caused a near-jihad. When he specifically wasn't in that mode.

Yeah, if you're new to this "debate" you don't expect statements like "it's not fair for male people to compete in women's sports leagues" or "isn't calling yourself an agender squirrelkin a bit silly?" to start WW3.

I've never before appreciated Piers Morgan's ability to cut people off and talk over them.

That guy in the orange jumper was a total tosser.

But now I sit back, think about India's hand on Benjamin's arm and how most women can't/wouldn't do that, and the dominance of voices from those who weren't born female debating an issue that impacts women most of all, and I feel the same old silencing from our own lives

I'm in two minds about it at the moment as part of me feels I'll take anyone who can command the airwaves and undermine this nonsense. I still recognise that it isn't right that it should be men who have the greater capacity to do this but if it is effective I think I'm willing to hold my nose. But it makes me uneasy still.

My favourite bit was wee snidey butterface being a bit flustered and bleating - no it doesn’t work like that! When Piers asked, quite legitimately why if all identities must be respected and everyone gets to identify however they wish them why us his two spirit penguin identity not accepted?

Who decides what is and isn’t an acceptable gender?