MNHQ make a statement on Twitter re FWR

[GirlDownUnder]

mobile.twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1182615292813467648

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3

The usual suspects pile on, but I think the ratios look very good.

MNHQ

It seems to me that anyone who doesn't actively engage with supporting 'trans' is a hater and a bigot.

It's difficult to think of anything else that causes such venom to be directed at people who aren't interested or who disagree with the cause or claims made in relation to it.

It seems to me that anyone who doesn't actively engage with supporting 'trans' is a hater and a bigot.

Worse than that. You can actively be supporting a trans person, or be a trans person yourself! but 'doing it wrong', hence, hater, bigot, want kids to die blah blah blah

It's all nonsense.

The MOS has the story - complete with Mimmymum/Miranda angle

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7566795/Mothers-boycott-Flora-margarine-pulls-adverts-Mumsnet-transaphobia-row.html

Thanks Bore

The MOS has the story - complete with Mimmymum/Miranda angle

MOS headlined highlights

Furious mothers boycott Flora margarine after it pulls its adverts from Mumsnet in 'transphobia' row following complaints from a 'handful' of transgender activists

• Justine Roberts, founder of Mumsnet, has accused the Flora brand of caving in
• Transgender rights campaigners claimed the site of 'nasty, trans-hostile posts'
• Mumsnet currently boats ten million users and allows parents to share tips

The bit about Mimmymum/Miranda

“One activist Helen Islan, who uses the pseudonym Mimmymum on Twitter, tweeted: 'I like Flora but there is absolutely no way I am going to buy it while it is partnering with Mumsnet which platforms nasty, trans-hostile posts on its website.'

Ms Islan was previously embroiled in controversy after complaints she made to police about a transsexual, Miranda Yardley, resulted in Britain's first hate crime prosecution. The case was thrown out and costs awarded to Yardley.”

LOL. I don’t always appreciate the Mail or the Mail on Sunday but I can’t fault them on this occasion, so much burn and so much attention to detail, it’s almost like they’ve been reading this thread!

Oh my. I think Upton are going to regret this, especially if people find this thread and read the 'reviews' of their products

As well as Justine, quotes from Kiri Tunks and Karen Ingala-Smith. I doubt a decade ago any of them would have predicted that the Mail, rather than the Guardian, would give them a voice. With a quote from the editor of Conservative Woman, which has published some very good articles on gender issues.

Women have unique experiences, that differ from those of men. We can and should stand together on issue that affect us and our children.

Butter not margarine!

Apparently MN are appearing in court about their transphobic stance - first I've heard about it?

Thank you Mumsnet!

Margarine for the marginalised!

I’ll stick to real things, thanks- like butter and sex based rights

Well done MNHQ, sensible decision, sensible statement. You’ll come out of this well.

Great to see the MoS picking this up. I think Upfield are going to come to seriously regret their silliness

great quotes in the article too

Kiri Tunks, co-founder of Women's Place UK, which opposes the introduction of 'self-identification laws for transgender people', said: 'It's disappointing to see a company try to bully a women's online forum simply because women talk freely about politics and feminism there.'

Karen Ingala-Smith, chief executive of a women's domestic violence charity in London, said: 'I find the expectation that women who share motherhood don't have the right to talk about anything political beyond motherhood absolutely sexist, patriarchal nonsense.

I wasn't impressed with Flora in my home country when they put out an advert that ended with a woman about to hit her partner with a lamp.
I emailed them about it glorifying domestic violence and got the reply that it was (the equivalent of) light-hearted.

Apart from the product, as far as I'm concerned, Flora can fuck off.

Good to see this in such a popular publication, with the banality reaching even more people.

Also good to see the background on Islan, though it should mention that she was previously part of Mermaids.

"A spokesman for Upfield said: 'We are wholly committed to our values which includes treating everyone equally. We feel more could be done to moderate online discussion and tackle discriminatory posts."

Id like to know what they mean by "discriminatory posts". Do they understand that "discrimination" has a legal meaning which they are implying with that wording? If I were MN I'd seek clarification of that statement. The MN moderation policy covers "misgendering".

Not believing in transgender ideology and supporting women's rights to exclude males from female spaces and services under the EA single sex exemptions, which is all that goes on here, and is subject to strict moderation policy, is not "discriminatory".

Apparently MN are appearing in court about their transphobic stance - first I've heard about it?

Hayden boasted about taking MN to court last year.

Thank you MNHQ.

I have learned so much from this site.

I think they come after women partly because they want to be us so much.

I do believe the tide is turning now and people are beginning to realise what is happening to children and young people.

Upfield have really done themselves no favours and lost a lot of custom. I went back to butter a good few years ago.

Thank you also to the women on here who I learn so much from.

Well it’s no surprise that the Mail are backing Mumsnet - if this place folded they’d have nowhere to copy and paste from for articles and they’d actually have to generate their own content

Seriously though, it’s good - well balanced with quotes from some solid, respectable agencies.

I do think we may see something on Monday when the majority of the Press Office & Social Media team comes back in to the office and see a deluge of “so can you confirm that Upfield don’t care about the rights of women?” Think their heads might explode

Thanks again Justine for sticking up for us.

The Guardian will have to put together a counter article with interviews from McKinnon.

Last year this wouldn't have made any national papers.

Don't often post but often lurk and learn from the posters on here. Thanks to all the MN staff who have shown more backbone and honesty ,as well as support for women with opinions, than Twitter and Facebook

That quote that Erishkigal highlighted does seem to be back tracking a bit. I was surprised that decisions about ending commercial partnerships could be made so quickly in a multi national organisation.

I agree that posts in Feminist Chat are carefully moderated. In fact there was a slew of posts a few weeks ago complaining that there was too much moderation. Personally, I think the balance is about right.

"Women should be able to talk about their sex based rights, which are current law, without some fucking margarine manufacturer telling them off"
Perfectly summed up!

I think it will be very interesting to see what tomorrow brings in terms of a response from
Upfield, I do think (and sincerely hope) there will be some backtracking.

I'm banned from Twitter but have emailed Upfield.

And yes, thank you MNHQ who have to deal with so much shit from knobheads (not feeling very eloquent this morning )

One activist Helen Islan, who uses the pseudonym Mimmymum on Twitter, tweeted: 'I like Flora but there is absolutely no way I am going to buy it while it is partnering with Mumsnet which platforms nasty, trans-hostile posts on its website.

Ms Islan was previously embroiled in controversy after complaints she made to police about a transsexual, Miranda Yardley, resulted in Britain's first hate crime prosecution. The case was thrown out and costs awarded to Yardley.

Classic Mail passive aggressive dig.

Yeah, it’s a bit of a shame that Helen has actively persecuted a trans person for holding views she doesn’t like innit?

Sort of makes her a bigot and a transphobe if you consult a dictionary

Oh thats an interesting Twitter quote. Of course a GRC doesn't change your sex, the law already recognises that. It doesn't guarantee your entry into women only sports, or a women only service.
Isn't that explained to people when they apply for a GRC?