MNHQ make a statement on Twitter re FWR

[GirlDownUnder]

mobile.twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1182615292813467648

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3

The usual suspects pile on, but I think the ratios look very good.

MNHQ

Isn't that explained to people when they apply for a GRC?

Possibly, but as the numbers of people who actually apply for a GRC are pretty damned low, it's entirely likely that it's not widely known.

Comments by mail readers overwhelmingly supportive of Mumsnet, of free speech, of the right not be to dictated to by shouty minorities and pointing out the fact that butter is so much healthier and more delicious that chemical spread. Massive mistake by Flora IMO

Isn't that explained to people when they apply for a GRC?

Transactivists think it is a loophole which is likely to be closed, and in the meantime self ID will be upheld as the conditions for excluding MTF trans people from women's spaces are restrictive.

Thank you MNHQ

Hope you are okay. This site is super mild (compared to “male” sites) - they don’t do this to men, only women.

I grew up working class, and female-only spaces affect poor and WC women and girls more than anyone else.

Because “Acceptance without exception” creates a new loophole, and people who exploit it cannot be stopped (eg JY).

Many MC women are throwing poorer women under the bus, but MN is holding a space for us to talk, which means a lot.

Thank you

Hayden boasted about taking MN to court last year.

That’s what I thought, but Hayden’s most recent tweets seems to reverse ferret somewhat, from an absolute stance to a maybe I will...

How do you read this thread? Specifically where I’ve highlighted.

mobile.twitter.com/flyinglawyer73/status/1183064910600781825

Has Stephanie Hayden actually ever won a case?

The laws on vexatious litigation need to be tightened up.

So is Hayden taking Mumsnet to court? For what?

Is it because there are exemptions under the equality act, irrespective of whether you have a GRC? In which case the equality act accepts that there hasn't actually been a change of sex.

@MNHQ thank you for continuing to support free speech for women.

I am absolutely disgusted that a corporation has decided to cancel a business partnership with MN on the basis of a Twitter complaint yet continues to advertise on other SM sites which tolerate threats of violence against women, pornography and fake news.

Like many others I am sad I cannot boycott their minging products because I don’t use them...but I notice their parent company owns Trainline so I will definitely boycott that and tell them why.

This is an attack on the whole of the MN community and our right to freedom of speech - whether it’s our passion for Zoflora, our irritation/indulgence at noisy toddlers in cafes, our advice that you should LTB or our belief that men can’t magically transform into women. @MNHQ thank you for supporting all of us and our diverse opinions.

Come on, you brilliant women!!

Re SH's tweet - the phrase "the logical inference of MN's position" is doing a HELL of a lot of work there. I assumed TRA's thought 'logical inferences' best avoided otherwise there will be a lot of homophobes out there, wouldn't there?

Thanks for the Trainline tip. I had already switched to Raileasy Trainsplit as their website is easy to use and their prices often cheaper.

Any other brands owned by the same holding company?

@needmoresleep here’s KKR’s portfolio...they own tons of stuff ...hoping someone a bit more savvy than me can identify more UK brands we can boycott to show British women value free speech.

[https://www.kkr.com/businesses/kkr-portfolio]

www.kkr.com/businesses/kkr-portfolio

Click link

Thanks. Mainly American, so they probably don't care. When I get a chance I might look more closely at the UK/Europe ones and make a list.

I somehow fancy asking Trainline etc whether they share the values of their margarine friends. (I must make an average of one long distance journey a week, often by train.)

Is it because there are exemptions under the equality act, irrespective of whether you have a GRC? In which case the equality act accepts that there hasn't actually been a change of sex.

I've always made this argument. If they can be excluded for being male then their sex in real terms is not actually female, whatever the legal protection they have. The GRA also has exemptions, which acknowledges that the change of legal gender is a legal fiction, not biological reality.

Hmm that’s a lot of fingers in a lot of pies.
Lots of energy and tech companies and B2B.
Would be a shame if they lose multi-million dollar contracts. 🤭

Would be a shame if they lose multi-million dollar contracts.

They won't.

It takes just a handful of procurement and Director level women to take an interest.
I’m in IT and it’s not inconceivable that some day I’ll be in a position to choose/recommend a service desk platform. I may then remember seeing BMC on that list.
I hope there are many more who will.
I just don’t know how to make it known, never been a part of loud activism, nor had a Twitter account.

I personally find quite a lot of the things the TRA mob say to be transphobic, they are throwing actual trans people under a bus in an attempt to oppress women.

Absolutely. This is one of the weirder things about trans activism (along many weird things). I've seen far more actual transphobia from trans activists than from GC feminists. The word 'truscum' in particular is one of the nastiest and dehumanising words I've seen.

Not to mention the transphobia with people like Charlie Evans and others who detransition. “You were never really trans” etc. The ability of TRAs to “other” and minimise the experiences of gender non-conforming people is nasty.

I personally find quite a lot of the things the TRA mob say to be transphobic, they are throwing actual trans people under a bus in an attempt to oppress women.

I agree. We have reached a stage where it seems impossible to discuss the details of any policy - the only options are total agreement or accusations of transphobia.

For instance re: the Old Vic I honestly don't believe that most people who are gender dysphoric (not sure if that is the right word) are eager to enter a room full of men using urinals, but the official trans friendly position is that the toilets are great, so dissent is transphobic.

I agree that posts in Feminist Chat are carefully moderated. In fact there was a slew of posts a few weeks ago complaining that there was too much moderation. Personally, I think the balance is about right.

Yes, I agree. Actually, I'm quite glad this incident has prompted another clear statement on MN's principled position. ( and also that it accidentally caused DH to google the ingredients of Flora, as it had somehow escaped our previous palm oil checking).

Thank you