MNHQ make a statement on Twitter re FWR

[GirlDownUnder]

mobile.twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1182615292813467648

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3

The usual suspects pile on, but I think the ratios look very good.

MNHQ

Welcome Jantolee!

They saw us making Aunt Lydia jokes and decided to "no u" it back. Doesn't work because they don't understand what we meant in the first place (and also comes across as childish and petulant).

Threads about McKinnon aren't full of transphobia, they're full of anger about McKinnon's consistently poor behavior.

I did a search - there are no actual current threads about RM. There are threads where RM is mentioned in general along with other TRAs or notable tweeters.
The first actual about RM thread is now on page 2, and has 26 posts. So yeah, we totes obsessed. Or is that projection I smell

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3713787-CYCLING-CHAMPIONSHIPS-Manchester?

Women are often kicked off Twitter for expressing gender critical views. The gaslighting and entitlement of many TRA is staggering.

The last thread focused on McKinnon was about McKinnon posting a gif of a skeleton dancing on what was implied to be the grave of a young woman who died of brain cancer. That's not transphobia, that's "wow you are a terrible human being".

Yes, the "no u" is also spot on. My teens use that too.

Thankyou MNHQ, I know I sometimes get frustrated with moderating decisions, but I think it's important to remember that MN is standing with us publically, many of us in here are anonymous, MN do not have that luxury.

The last thread focused on McKinnon was about McKinnon posting a gif of a skeleton dancing on what was implied to be the grave of a young woman who died of brain cancer. That's not transphobia, that's "wow you are a terrible human being".

Yeah you’re right PKR 👍 My bad - I was looking for threads about RM as a cyclist or transwoman where we might have been transphobic.

Not a general thread about one human being being absolutely horrific about another human being.

Thank you @boatyardblues.
I was laughing to myself at the Aunt Lydia thing - particularly having just read the sequel.

Of course there are people like me who are working class and left wing, but I'm sure they will find a way to dismiss my views too. Maybe I'm too skint, maybe my single parenthood can be used against me or maybe I don't have a professional enough job to be taken seriously.

Sorry but you might think you are: left wing, working class (and even Black) but you are really a White middle class right winger funded by American fundamentalists - don't you know?
And I'm still waiting for the cheques!

What’s really odd is which viewpoint is more like the American fundamentalists?

1. That girls and boys can wear whatever they want, play with whatever they want, and should in fact be encouraged to experiment so they find what makes them happy?

2. That boys like blue, cars and wear trousers. Girls like pink, ponies and wear dresses. Anything outside of these boxes is clearly a sign of being “other” and requires radical medical intervention.

Yeah, I am more than happy to accept money from right wingers if they want to give it to me.

Has anyone actually had any?

Well done MNHQ.

MN is for discussions. From TTC to losing parents, and politics, racism, illness, parking , fashion and yes trans issues too.
It's not more contentious than which way to face toilet paper or how many times should towels be washed.
People are told that they are indeed unreasonable and that may fall sometimes on trans people. Deal with it.

I'm a lurker who has just signed up as I am so impressed by Mumsnet's stance on free speech. Thank-you for supporting women's right discuss the assault on their sex-based rights.

@MNHQ thank you. I've said it before and I never cease to be grateful and today I want to say it again: this is important, it matters beyond words. Without you there'd be far less effective pushback.

I don't know what it costs you (I do think it would be instructive to share, so we understand) but I know there is a cost.

Puuuuuuulll! Still we rise.

It is all such a mess in that people are so determined to see transphobia that every single question or discussion becomes transphobic.

I have sympathy in that there is a LOT of transphobia in the general twitter sphere for sure- but it’s usually of the name calling level and where actual discussion about biology or practicalities is occurring I rarely see it.

Mumsnet is such an easy misogynistic target. How very dare women have opinions or be intelligent and well read. How very middle class of them to actually know stuff.

My only sadness in the feminist rising against this threat to actual womanhood is that some of the most outspoken feminists have at times dipped into out and out name calling or abuse and it really weakens the arguement.

My bank account remains tragically un-supplemented, testing. But the TRAs already knew that.

(Puts on mum voice) Fibbing isn't very nice, you know.

Thank you MN. Isnt it strange that McK wants posts banned that criticize their threatening behaviour, challenge their status as female, question exploitation of women's sports to improve their unremarkable record in male competition, or their crushing of free thought and expression particularly as an academic? None of which is 'hate speech'. Yet McK doesn't think anyone should ban the 'literal violence' of their actual hate speech against women such as 'dying in a grease fire'.Its increasingly obvious how prevalent the harassment, aggression, death threats and intimidation is from the MtF trans lobby, and how absent from the women's side (clearly they all spend a lot of time reading MN so maybe they could share some examples of GC women's death threats etc with us (radio silence). Hmm. I wonder why that's the case? (See 'question their status as female' above)...

Under almost any online, mainstream article about this issue, you will find the general public commenting along the lines of I'm sick to death of this, stop shoving it down our throats, why do the vast majority of people have to be controlled by a tiny minority, stop saying everything is transphobic.

Just hearing about the peripheral arguments is getting on people's nerves, because they are without content. It's just shouting and oh my God you're so transphobic.

The general public certainly don't want rapists in female prisons, men playing women's rugby, and they are getting fed up to the back teeth with women who give birth wanting to be called a father and mixed sex toilets just pisses everyone off from start to finish. Calling all this stuff transphobic is such an own goal.

Calling mumsnet transphobic is tantamount to recommending it to anyone with any common sense.

Welcome UpfieldHatesWomen

And welcome back Tilberi
Mumsnet's integrity is attracting new and returning members.

Ethics matter. Women matter.

Good.

Thankyou, Mumsnet. I don't dare post anything on Twitter, so I cannot comment on your thread there, but I also very much appreciate you standing up to the same kind of pressure we see documented on this forum all the time.

Thanks @MNHQ.

There is such a fundamental disagreement at the base of this that it's hard to find common ground. I hold several sincere beliefs that Dr McKinnon says are transphobic, but I know there isn't total consensus about what truly is transphobic, what is misogyny and what is just difference of opinion. I appreciate the chance to discuss it.