MNHQ make a statement on Twitter re FWR

[GirlDownUnder]

mobile.twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1182615292813467648

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3

The usual suspects pile on, but I think the ratios look very good.

MNHQ

I am autistic, I want the right the ask for a carer who is the same sex as me.
I current have that.

But if I say 'I have no problem with immigrants but they should integrate more and should not automatically be entitled to benefits', I probably wouldn't be called out on it.

What's the parallel statement here? I believe trans people should be protected from discrimination in the workplace. I believe they should be able to claim benefits and have free access to the best healthcare for them.

I do not however believe that should extend to being literally considered a member of the opposite sex. Like most of the population.

Think of it this way - if I said 'I hate immigrants', I'd be called out on it.

If you could show me where someone has written I hate trans people, you might have a point.

Until then perhaps you insisting that free speech is dangerous and that women answer your questions immediately, puts are you in the category of someone who is just inherently opposed to women's rights.

Well what minority is analogous then? Blacks? They were feared? Gays? They were feared. Immigrants? They are feared. Muslims? They're feared.

'daily bile' and 'denigration' - that hyperbole translates as women saying 'this is not ok because x reason, this harms women. '

And please do explain further your view that free speech shouldn't be permitted to people who don't share your political views. That's an interesting POV to say the least. I'd love to hear more on that.

Well what minority is analogous then? Blacks? They were feared? Gays? They were feared. Immigrants? They are feared. Muslims? They're feared.

None because the rights of these groups didn't take away right from any other group.

@Lifeonvenus search ‘immigration’ on MN. You will find lots of threads about it. With free speech (within the law) so you don’t need to debate it here.
HTH

Yes you did, Venus. You. You personally. YOU.

And people immediately answered YOU.

I would have thought it's immediately obvious that sharing a loo block with the opposite sex can be embarrassing, awkward and unsettling. It can feel unsafe. It can indeed be unsafe. That's why we don't normally do it.

I worked in the same organisation as someone like Pips Bunce. He was awarded a prize on an all-woman shortlist that I was nominated for.

Apart from that, am I not allowed to want to protect the rights of fellow women who are more vulnerable than me such as women in prison or women in rape shelters? Or the daughters of friends who are county level athletes who have ambitions to compete for England and are already coming up against men in their sports (my friend's daughter had her shin bone shattered by a transwoman in a hockey match, destroying her competitive ambitions). Or young girls that are harrassed in toilets by people like Jonathan Yaniv? Am I not allowed to recognise that these things are wrong?

As a white person I don't say oh I won't bother with racism because it doesn't directly affect me, as a woman living in the UK I don't say well fuck the children in Syria or the women being forced to undergo FGM, why is this any different?

*Think of it this way - if I said 'I hate immigrants', I'd be called out on it.

If you could show me where someone has written I hate trans people, you might have a point.*

My point which was clearly stated is that people are framing their hatred and prejudice in a fashion which just about skirts the boundaries of hate speech.

I don't fear males who identify as women, any more than any other male person. I just don't believe they are women, and I value female spaces.

Well what minority is analogous then? Blacks? They were feared? Gays?

Um, men aren't a monitory.

Ok, lets bring it back to immigrants again.

If MNHQ were to allow and actively endorse 'free speech' discussing peoples' concerns about immigration, where would that lead? It would lead to a lot of people reading fear filled scaremongering and it doesn't take long for people to follow the pack. In time, there would be pages and pages and thread after thread about the dangers of immigrants. Do you agree with that or not? Just answer that one question. Do you agree that that is what would happen or not?

No. There would be debate/discussion. Why don't you start a new thread on your hypothesis rather than trying to derail this one?

Minority!

Well what minority is analogous then?

Name a group who want society to behave as if they are something they demonstrably aren’t

That is analogous

I think you’re going to struggle to think of one though

Don't anybody discuss anything that LifeOnVenus has not endorsed or fuck knows what will happen!!!

I'll discuss the assault by trans privilege activist on the rights of women and girls as long as there's breathe left in my body (and I'm not banned!)

None of us need your permission.

I would have thought it's immediately obvious that sharing a loo block with the opposite sex can be embarrassing, awkward and unsettling. It can feel unsafe. It can indeed be unsafe. That's why we don't normally do it.

Yes. Where is the understanding and compassion for women who don't want to? All a bit one way, no?

So a transwoman gets to achieve at sports or at work some time. Stop the lights!!!!!!!!!!

My point which was clearly stated is that people are framing their hatred and prejudice in a fashion which just about skirts the boundaries of hate speech.

Well until you can actually show anything that is hatred and prejudice, again you have zero point and are just shouting at women. Which is completely futile, I'm afraid

So a transwoman gets to achieve at sports or at work some time. Stop the lights!!!!!!!!!!

A male gets to beat women. How novel and progressive.

hat people are framing their hatred and prejudice in a fashion which just about skirts the boundaries of hate speech.

I have no hate of transpeople.

I have massive concerns around the rights which will be taken away because of trans activists.

Black people weren't seen as equal? That's pretty similar.

So a transwoman gets to achieve at sports or at work some time. Stop the lights!!!!!!!!!!

No thanks. Please keep out of women's sports and spaces. Women have a right to their boundaries, and you need to respect them.

So a transwoman gets to achieve at sports or at work some time. Stop the lights!!!!!!!!!!

But they're not achieving really are they? They're stealing places off women. So their rights iinfringe on those of women. And it's a hollow victory no?

But if I say 'I have no problem with immigrants but they should integrate more and should not automatically be entitled to benefits', I probably wouldn't be called out on it.

If you can find blanket statements like that where the poster hasn't either had their behind handed to them on a plate or been deleted, I'd like to see them.

People are not talking here in prejudiced generalities about a community they fear without understanding, and to believe they do shows you don't read here in any depth or haven't taken time to educate yourself on the FWR board at all. Women are talking about specifics. Events, statistics, particular activists' or political figures' statements and actions released in the press or their social media, policies being written, legal process being bypassed. These are real things, happening now, with the impact on women and children's needs very apparent, and it's insane to expect women to not mind about this or to pretend it's not happening.