“He makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up” - warning signs you have observed

[AnyOldPrion]

Thanks to the Relationships board, I now have a better understanding of the red flags that can occur early in a relationship that indicate risk.

But it crossed my mind earlier that sometimes there are men (and possibly women) who set off instincts that make us feel unsafe.

Please don’t mention any names, or specific people, but what signs have you noticed that might consciously or subconsciously have triggered that response?

I’m personally not good at this, but I will try to start with a couple of things. These are things that happen when I’m in the same space as someone, but sometimes I have that reaction to photographs or recordings and I’m not sure why. I’d love to be able to understand what it is I’m picking up on.

Standing a little too close and/or moving towards me when I have moved away.

Being watched/stared at/eyes wandering.

Not backing off when asked.

Thanks in advance to anyone more observant.

For some reason, both husbands if a friend. She divorced no.1, 7 months after they married. He was up to all sorts.
No.2 just set my teeth on edge. An insincere smarmy act that she is oblivious to. Turns out he has been going to prostitutes since age 17 and no intention of stopping. Which was surprising. Also some porn problems and posters her for seex 24/7.
Do not ask me why she is still with him but she seems oblivious to why any of this problematic. Over the years we have had less and less contact and I now actively avoid them. he also gives my DH similar reactions. Being round him is like being dunked in a bucket of smarm and it never gets any better. We never acclumatised to him ut she didnt seem bothered by it.

Aberhonddu

And you have completely missed the point of my post.
It saddens me that other women experience this.
It surprised me that I haven't experienced what other women have, hence the "wow".
Obviously I've met creeps and had gut feelings about some people, but the posts just prior to mine made my jaw drop.

@Loopytiles

"gloriousred with your current colleague, you say “ he's never given me any cause for concern“, but he HAS, eg you describe at least one good reason for your concern, the way and frequency that he looks at you. Your H has also reminded you that you were right about the past colleague of your H’s."

Good point that he actually has given me cause for concern. I guess I feel like that because he has never said anything untoward to me or been obviously "weird" to me or anyone else in the office. I certainly don't get the same vibe from any of the other men in my (large) department. I went to the Christmas night out a few years ago and got very drunk after having just returned from mat leave and let my hair down a bit too much. He mentioned to a couple of other people about how drunk I was. Not unusual, I was! But no one else mentioned it, he didn't mention it to me and we certainly never spoke at the party - I don't even remember seeing him there. It was a very large company party. I avoid conversing with him at all costs.

I wonder what it was Ted Bundy saw.

Iirc (which I probably don't) he looked for women with a physical resemblance to someone who rejected his sexual advances.

If you're wondering about victimology, try a little thought experiment next time you're in a busy public place. Ask yourself, if I had to mug someone here, who would it be? Old? Ill/disabled? Wearing very high heels? On their own? Drunk? Physically smaller than you? Distracted/on their phone? Someone with their hands free or someone weighed down with bags of shopping or small children? Someone with big diamonds on their fingers? It's not a nice place to be in, mentally, especially when you realise that you personally fit in to a few of the categories (not the diamonds one, sadly). But few attackers are in such a hurry that they attack the first person they see, most choose their target for a reason.

I saw some research a couple of years back that asked violent offenders to look at different walking gaits and rate/comment on them. This was done with animated videos and motion capture technology, so the offenders only saw a blue cartoon figure walking, without the additional visual cues of age/sex/height/weight. Some of the offenders were superb at identifying the elderly and the physically weaker just from the way they walked.

scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=6145904942942676595&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5

Don't know if the link will work. The pdf is freely available. The citation is
Book, A., Costello, K., & Camilleri, J. A. (2013). Psychopathy and victim selection: The use of gait as a cue to vulnerability. Journal of interpersonal violence, 28(11), 2368-2383.

I hadn't heard the term "forced teaming" before but yes, recognise the behaviour and it always makes me nervous. Offering up what seem to be very personal confidences is a variation. It's a very human reaction to comfort someone by offering up a small confidence of your own by way of support.

There's always a misstep between their ego and their behaviour, which is learned and intended to disarm and deceive. They are too watchful. It shows in smiles that do not reach the eyes, which remain alert; in that tiny pause before selecting the "correct" response; in always noticing and remembering that tiny little detail about you.That's why their behaviour always seems just a little "off", even though they haven't actually said or done anything unusual.

Thanks Creepster.

There was a poster early on in the thread who said they refused to let a colleague walk with them to their car in a dark car park. There’s a poster on here who had their car clamped and the clamper offered to drive her round to the cash point, I think in the car park. Late at night, deserted. He kept persisting and she kept refusing and got away. When Levi Bellfield’s pictures were later in the paper she was certain it was him.

When Levi Bellfield’s pictures were later in the paper she was certain it was him.

Dear God. That's awful.

The creepiest thing that ever happened to me, in a long list, was receiving a Happy Anniversary card five years after my marriage.

For context, DH and I met when we both worked in prisons. When we married, it was obviously general knowledge at work although prison staff, for obvious reasons, were constantly reminded not to share personal information as walls have ears. I later transferred to another prison.

The man who sent the card to me - to my new prison - was serving life for double rape and murder. He had been in the prison system a long long time, well past his tariff, but on the two occasions he had "graduated" to open prison conditions, he had fixated on a female member of staff and although he didn't actually say or do anything wrong on either occasion, his behaviour was clearly "off" and he was swiftly returned to a high security prison.

Five years. It unnerves me to think about it even now.

gullfromhull The only other cause for backwards-facing hands would be very slouchy rounded shoulders, which I would read as poor self-worth.

I'm not doubting your observation, I'm trying to figure out a possible causal relationship between abusiveness and palms-back stance.

Yes @bd67th I’ve tried to do the same.
I don’t know why.
But I’ve seen it also in news cctv footage of violent individuals , taken before they’ve gone on to kill or attack.

JFC, Lily. I'd have been ready to move to another planet.

he looked for women with a physical resemblance to someone who rejected his sexual advances

His university girlfriend dumped him. He spent ages wooing her back and making himself more eligible, only to then dump her in turn as revenge. But he'd found a new interest by that point. And yes they all bore a passing resemblance to her.

I saw some research a couple of years back that asked violent offenders to look at different walking gaits and rate/comment on them.

Yes, they got the idea from Bundy's chilling comment, unless I'm thinking of a different identical study.

Someone I used to work with always made me feel on edge. To most , she appears to be kind , sweet and hard working.

What I see is a person that really NEEDS people to like her. She buys people gifts (tat that you'd never need in a shiny gift bag) a lot , she tries to manipulate others in to doing her work for her. She constantly complains about how much she has to do but when you look at the search history on her laptop (she asked me to help her with something techy) she spends most of her time looking at ASOS and Next.

I worked under her for a year and eventually asked to be moved as she was just horrid and unpredictable. Most other employees leave because of her behaviour, the only ones that stick are her two best friends. There is a toxic atmosphere in her department due to her behaviour. I fell out with one of her friends as she was behaving like a bully for a time, I now really like and respect that friend as I realised she was acting that way due to the person I'm talking about here.

I've recently found out that she has started a motivational speaking business which to me , is just another thing that is randomly odd. I guess the 'I'm so spiritual' thing looks like a cover for the nasty way she conducts herself.

I heard advice once about walking around alone/ unaccompanied. Head up, breezy, confident looking tuned into knes surroundings. Even if u donf feel ci fident, an outward semblance of it can be helpful

Did you see my post upthread lolaflores?

itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted
Thanks to the Relationships board, I now have a better understanding of the red flags that can occur early in a relationship that indicate risk.

According to most of those boards men are the devil incarnate I wouldn't base your knowledge on what you read in there

I have to say that the one person I have been the most uncomfortable around in last few years and from whom I got the sense they were sociopathic/psychotic was actually a woman

Oh those awful women! Ridiculously paranoid about men, when it's women who are the dangerous ones.

There’s a quote from the first paragraph of Tgof
where the victim of the attack says
“Kelly told me she felt new confidence in herself, knowing she had acted on that signal, knowing she had saved her own life”
I totally get this. I feel this too, despite the otherwise seemingly endless repercussions of trauma I continue to experience.

Oh sorry the victim doesn’t say it .
It’s about the victim . But you get the gist.

I have to say that the one person I have been the most uncomfortable around in last few years and from whom I got the sense they were sociopathic/psychotic was actually a woman

I've dealt with quite a few women like that in my time too. They exhibited far worse behaviour towards me than send a Happy Anniversary card.

I was wary of them but I wasn't frightened of them.

It's not the same, not the same at all.

I've had a few creepy experiences with men and each time it happened I had picked up on strange signals before really looking directly at them and before anything actually happened. I still couldn't tell you what it was that alerted me. Breathing, movement, whatever it was. I'm grateful for the instincts that give you a heads up in any case.

A simple one is eye movement, I suppose. Fixing your location and then trying to assess who else might be around or watching.

This might sound mad but another I've noticed (esp on quiet public transport or confined space) is the exaggerated pretence of just doing normal stuff as a prelude to some sort of unwanted attention. Sighs, rubbing head, rearranging items in pocket, a performance of normal. Sounds crazy right? I struggle to describe it but it never feels like genuine normal fidgeting....and then something happens.

There was a woman who worked at the charity I used to volunteer for. I always found something about her unnerving. She’d never finish a sentence, talked quite quickly and always sounded nervous. She was one of these very kind christian women who would always want to help, only there was something off about her, not like she was fake but something else. It was almost like she felt compelled to offer help but at the same time you could feel her pulling back. Her words wouldn’t give it away but it was always the feeling I got.

Anyway one day I met her husband. He was a creep. Mr perfect, oh so charitable on the surface but he was somehow detached. You could have a conversation with him and it appeared to be in the moment, but somehow it felt wrong. It wasn’t his tone or what he said but there was just something dismissive about him. Kind of like a verbal glazing over of the eyes. He was quiet, would hardly say a word, just sit there passively but somehow you knew he was taking it all in. He was one of these men who you could just imagine having an explosive temper and going from 0 to 100 in a split second. Outwardly there was nothing to dislike about him, but again, there was just something about him that put the hairs up on the back of my neck.

I often wondered about them, in fact I remember mentioning it to someone at the time. She was unnerving but not in a threatening way, but he was really unsettling, even despite his Mr perfect persona. I remember saying more than once that I thought he was abusive towards her. he was just the type to be insidious and subtly controling, and I just knew there was a temper lurking just below the surface. If you weren’t paying attention to all the tiny signs you’d miss it completely so kind and gentle an image he projected. She always said he was wonderful but it never quite added up to me. There was always an undercurrent in what she was saying. Just occasionally she’d let something slip out that convinced me of it.

They moved away to Ireland I think and I never heard any more about them. I hope she got rid of him, he was truly unpleasant.

I never used to think about all the subtle cues I picked up about people. Some of it was me being young and inexperienced, and being abused myself, but I’ve always got vibes off people.Now I think about it I still can’t put my finger on it. I’m blind, so miss out on body language, but I do get this feeling with people where I can feel their energy.I never really thought about how much notice I’ve taken of it until recently, but I’ve always tried to avoid people who gives me that uncomfortable feeling. I can’t explain it, it’s like the air between me and somebody feels thick. It’s a bit woo I know, but I get it a lot, and not only in a bad way.

We were never told to kiss adults as children. But my brother's wife would always tell their little girls to kiss everyone goodbye.

Only very recently was mum able to tell me that when she was very little indeed her grandmother would tell her to kiss her friends and friends' husbands goodbye. And one of those men's hands would casually find its way up under her dress into her pants. That's why we were never told to do it, but she could never put it into words why.

Thing is, you have no way of knowing what men's (ok some women too) peculiarities might be.

Or if they're desperately trying to fight an attraction they don't want, and having a child thrust on them by an oblivious mother might trigger a binge.

I’ve had creeping unease triggered by both women and men but with men theres