“He makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up” - warning signs you have observed

[AnyOldPrion]

Thanks to the Relationships board, I now have a better understanding of the red flags that can occur early in a relationship that indicate risk.

But it crossed my mind earlier that sometimes there are men (and possibly women) who set off instincts that make us feel unsafe.

Please don’t mention any names, or specific people, but what signs have you noticed that might consciously or subconsciously have triggered that response?

I’m personally not good at this, but I will try to start with a couple of things. These are things that happen when I’m in the same space as someone, but sometimes I have that reaction to photographs or recordings and I’m not sure why. I’d love to be able to understand what it is I’m picking up on.

Standing a little too close and/or moving towards me when I have moved away.

Being watched/stared at/eyes wandering.

Not backing off when asked.

Thanks in advance to anyone more observant.

"If you trust your instincts and avoid men who're making you uncomfortable it's because you're a snob" is certainly quite the spin on things!

(Ponders why so many people are coming out of the woodwork to encourage women not to trust our instincts and therefore not to avoid blokes who give us that just spotted the stripes in the long grass feeling.)

@Thegullfromhull reread. Looking like you have a lack of resources is creepy as opposed to an actual lack of resources. So extreme skinniness, extreme paleness. Basically anything the suggests that a stranger may take from you is hardwired as creepiness into the human psyche. It’s evolutionary psychology to find someone who behaves is an unpredictable manners or who you can determine to have a malicious intent (typically this is observed through violent or aggressive behaviour but can also be found in physical signs that the person may be obliged to steal from you).

What you describe is rational. You know about the lack of resources, you’re not suspicious of it. The discussion is about instinct. Humans instinctively recoil from strangers who look like they are lacking in something and therefore have motivation to steal.

Do they ?
I’m not sure
If I went to a far off land with lots of malnourished people who were thin and dressed in rags my natural instinct would be to help them?
It wouldn’t occur to me that they wanted to steal, and they’d be welcome to anything I had worth stealing . Have you been in this situation?

I wonder if your view is human or in fact a very westernised mentality ?

When people point out that they can see what you're trying to do in terms of framing their reactions and comments as something they're not the correct response is definitely to double down.

I didn't think the risk of being targeted by a thief was uppermost in my mind.

I wouldn’t even always especially call it gut instinct but of course can be.

The times I can think of when I was young were situations that maybe I felt the person was a bit rude or a little bit too intense but brushed it off.

Nothing to do with appearance as I was not a conventional type myself!

And yes have had the hairs on my head raise like an animal without even any clues.

I think it all ads up and yes your instinct won’t always protect you but 95% of the time it will if you pay attention and trust yourself.

Looking like you have a lack of resources is creepy as opposed to an actual lack of resources. So extreme skinniness, extreme paleness.

The most terrifying people in the world are to be found at goth clubs, apparently.

(Still musing on the possible motivations people might have for discouraging women from having a conversation about trusting their instincts and not allowing them to be overriden by the idea that they're being rude or unkind.)

Took a major antipathy towards a visiting Methodist minister who totally lacked the warmth of the other ministers.
Found out from a lovely gay friend that he was a regular cruiser on the gay circuit - where he bumped into my pal.
My doubts about him confirmed when he told my gay friend he would definitely be going to hell for being gay - whilst his gay liaisons were OK as he had a wife and went home to her . Utter hypocrite .

Basically anything the suggests that a stranger may take from you is hardwired as creepiness into the human psyche.

That is incorrect.
Usual and customary is a learned judgment so it would be unpossible for it to be hardwired.

Ultimately women are not instinctively worried about being stolen from, I don't think. I'm a pretty solid woman. Someone extremely thin is just less likely to be able to tek me! Ditto someone very pale and weak looking.
My first thought on a man grabbing me and trying to drag me down a side road wasn't "he wants to steal my £7.50" it was "He wants to kill me."
I work with all kinds of oddballs and weirdos (I fit right in haha) that's not what we are talking about. It's literally a sense of wrongness despite the surface things looking fine.

That's it Hepzibah
It's a sense of wrongness despite the surface things looking fine.
That's exactly how I feel, there's something wrong with them

The most terrifying people in the world are to be found at goth clubs, apparently.

And reader, I married her.

FFS. Actually, the scariest thing about most goth clubs is that if you just need to pee, you use the loo with the shortest queue, and if you need to fix your eyeliner you use the one with the best mirrors. (The horror).

I remember something about 'double fisting' -- and acting totally innocent and confused when he was mocked for it

On that one occasion he might have been genuine. In around 2003 I was on a student exchange programme where I met a very nice, rather innocent young woman from the mid-West, to whom "double fisting" meant holding a drink in each hand.

I have an instant reaction to men who behave very "high energy" either the type who come across as overly hyperactive or wound tightly. I think I'm afraid they'll snap or something, I feel on high alert around them and intensely nervous.

A very high energy friend of a friend who I had an instant dislike to once tried to push me over on some icy ground as "a laugh" and because I was so nervous of him already my gut reaction was to slap him. It happened so fast that everyone was stunned. He looked livid and mercifully I never saw him again.

I'm also on edge around middle aged men (and women to an extent) who like to hang out/spend time with their children's friends, no matter how relaxed or "cool" they are.

In around 2003 I was on a student exchange programme where I met a very nice, rather innocent young woman from the mid-West, to whom "double fisting" meant holding a drink in each hand.

Calling someone a two fisted drinker, of course. That is going to cause some confusion in certain circles.

Mine are shit because I've always been taught that I'm in the wrong, and this extends in every direction. Spent a long time assuming that I was bad at reading people and compensated for this by being far too trusting. Then spent a long time assuming that my instincts were too crappy to keep me safe, and compensated for this by withdrawing from everybody.

I have a similar experience to this and likewise, quite recently I've been actively listening to my instincts more and trying to improve. I started a new job over the summer where we were all new staff, as a temporary team of workers on a project. There was one guy who made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. It was like I could feel his eyes burning into me as every time I looked around he was either staring at me with a malovelent look or reading what I was working on over my shoulder. Every conversation he had with anyone was like he was trying to appear helpful but in a way that he made himself superior and was incredibly controlling. He seemed to want to be the authority on other people too. We don't refer to it as gossip so much when men do it, but that's what it was in a very underhand way, planting ideas in people's heads. He was overly sycophantic to the bosses too. Everything just felt very rehearsed. When he spoke to me, he would ask me some sort of leading question, and then his eyes would look through me, like he wasn't listening at all, there was another reason for the question, some sort of assessment being made perhaps or setting something up.

Anyway, a strange thing happened in that he went missing from work, he simply disappeared for a week. The police were contacted, and he finally turned up back at the temporary lodgings some of the staff were staying at. I never got to find out what had happened, but I just know that something was incredibly off about this man - it may not necessarily have been malovelence, he may have been suffering from a mental illness, but even so, I picked up on all not being well and I feel it a small victory for me in learning to listen to my instincts. I do believe it's something you can develop if you simply start listening to yourself, and sometimes your physical reactions. Others I was working with seemed really surprised by the turn of events, whereas I just thought 'ah, so I was right, something really is wrong there.' I was working with another woman who seemed to have a lot of internalised misogyny (workplace bitchiness towards other women, clinging onto the menfolk for validation and when I gave her a correct answer to a question she'd go check it with a man after instead, that kind of thing). She was so surprised this man had gone missing, said how he had been totally happy and normal. Her instincts were way off, so I do think seeking approval of men and associated internalised misogyny can lead to not listening to your instincts. Instincts aren't woo, you might not know exactly what is wrong, but if you have a reaction to someone you should pay attention and protect yourself in whatever way is necessary.