"Girls are skipping school to avoid sharing gender neutral toilets with boys" - Mail on Sunday article

[Sunkisses]

Great article in the Mail on Sunday today about the awful impacts on girls of being forced to share loos with boys at school. With quotes from a female GP about the health and psychological impacts of girls not having single-sex loos, Stephanie Davies-Arai from Transgender Trend, and David Davies MP

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipping-school-avoid-sharing-gender-neutral-toilets-boys.html

tequila

kosh answered before I commented

Im just really really slow at typing and easily distracted

My DC school is like this and has been since it was built in 2012. My dd has no issue with it and the layout works well in preventing toilets being used for purposes of drugs, bullying etc. The unisex cubicles are opposite the open plan hand washing facilities with background music (I guess for privacy)

Q: What are schools etc supposed to do when they have to provide for those transitioning etc?

A: Tell them to use the appropriate facilities for their SEX like everyone else.

Exactly. It's better they learn at an early age that being "trans" does not give them the right to use female spaces (it's boys really that are the issue) otherwise they will grow up to be a generation far, far worse than what we have today; today's transwomen, after all, grew up with single sex toilets and know, deep inside, that they are not supposed to be inside them. Males who grew up being told that they are girls and may use the female facilities will have an entitlement that is truly out of control; it will be engrained.
Tell them the truth. Be firm about it. They are biological males and must use the male facilities, now and always. If they are bullied by other males, they must speak to parents and teachers and get is sorted, not run to the girls' loos.

That's the only way. We (general, "we" schools etc) are far too namby-pamby about this. Oh, the poor boys' feelz!

All of this is just SO stupid! How many kids in whatever size of school identify as anything other than a female or a male? Probably less than 1%, if any at all even, so WHY all this messing about with male and female toilets? For the absolute vast majority of the public at large the separate male and female setup works perfectly fine and in an ever more accepting world, the odd few transgender people can use whichever toilets appropriate to the gender by which they now live!

Funny how it was difficult to find a loo with wheelchair access - now it’s a mad rush to change loos to unisex? Schools, offices and theatres are breaking their necks to get this done. Why is this?

Why is trans the ‘sexy’ topic when disabled access isn’t?

Why do you think it’s been introduced in schools though? To try and normalise this stuff to children from a young age? I’m so pleased people are standing up and staying how unacceptable this is. Poor kids, I’d have been mortified to have to share a toilet with boys. They aren’t exactly mature about bodily functions and periods at that age. And camera phones are everywhere now. There are bound to be issues.

the odd few transgender people can use whichever toilets appropriate to the gender by which they now live!

No. Males do not have a right to use female toilets. What does 'the gender by which they now live' mean anyway?

Why do you think it’s been introduced in schools though? To try and normalise this stuff to children from a young age?

Yes. It's all about removing boundaries. So that girls learn that they can't tell a male to leave when he enters a female-only space.

Just asked my ten year old if they would like to share a toilet with someone of the opposite sex the response was no yuck

Presumably there are no males in your household?

It feels as though many posters have an entirely erroneous picture of what mixed sex toilet facilities are like.
We are NOT talking a single room with cubicles and shared wash basins, as is the case with single sex ones. Each of these toilets is entirely enclosed, (just like the toilet in your own home is), and usually has its own hand washing facilities.

Such a provision is infinitely better than the single sex cubicle option. Privacy for all, and no longer a room dominated by those who choose to use it as a social/smoking area to avoid having to go outside at breaks.

Why people are seizing on the trans element of this, rather than how much better it is for EVERYONE, I don't know.

And camera phones are everywhere now. There are bound to be issues

@ronnie27 , no-one can use cameras because each toilet is entirely private. Again, please read the description of these toilets. They provide MUCH more privacy than single sex cubicle blocks, where there IS a risk that photos can be taken by bullies.

Sharing a household toilet with family is completely different to being in public toilets saraclara I can't believe people still see this as some sort of "gotcha" - unless of course saraclara has a steady trail of strangers coming through her front door to use her facilities.

The reason schools are doing this is because they are being told by Mermaids, Stonewall, Allsorts, Gendered Intelligence, Kite Trust or any of the other myriad groups that are infiltrating our schools that they are failing to abide by the Equality Act by not letting trans pupils choose which facilities they wish to use.

This is a lie as the Act specifically sets out that single-sex exemptions are perfectly legal.

If anyone is concerned about the introduction of mixed sex facilities in their child’s school there are some very useful resources to help you challenge it on these websites:

womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

womansplaceuk.org/mixed-sex-toilets-ins-chools/

safeschoolsallianceuk.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/singlesextoiletsfactsheet.pdf

We are NOT talking a single room with cubicles and shared wash basins, as is the case with single sex ones.

saraclara For you, and anyone else who can't be bothered to read the linked article before commenting, they are exactly like the single sex toilets.

One angry mother, who has daughters aged four and eight at the school, said: 'The cubicles were open at the bottom and top so older pupils can easily climb up the toilets and peer over.'

Why people are seizing on the trans element of this, rather than how much better it is for EVERYONE, I don't know.

How can something which is clearly worse for girls be better for everyone? Don't girls count in your world?

Worth pointing out that this thread is about girls and their feelings / experiences. It is only because trans groups are so bloody desperate to remove safe single sex facilities from girls and women and have inappropriately targeted to schools that they are mentioned.

@saraclara the issue is that some schools ARE literally just changing the sign on the door of toilets that contain rows of cubicles and shared hand-washing facilities.

Again, please read the description of these toilets.

Great comment from someone who couldn't be bothered to read the linked article before commenting.

Re. Cameras: tiny lmost invisible cameras can be fixed to the wall in such enclosed cubicles.
Other problems with mixed sex:
men and boys using it often pee on the seat and don't clean up after themselves. Women who come after have to do it. Yuck.
Even if they raise the seat, there's a fine sprinkle all over the floor. (German wives were up in arms about this about ten years ago, as they're the ones who have to clean the floors.) This means walking in male pee. Yuck!
Bins. Menstrual pads and tampons. Did you know that some men have a fetish about these items, take them out of the bins? Yuck.
Some men are known to masturbate in toilets. Leaving their goo behind.

Yes, not all men and probably not schoolboys. But these are further reasons why women want their own loos.

It feels as though many posters have an entirely erroneous picture of what mixed sex toilet facilities are like

No, not erroneous - based on personal experience. Using the same toilets as your family or guests is entirely different to a large public facility with strangers. Most uni-sex toilets do not have integral wash basins, either.

And office/school work places can be quite a different matter to toilets in the night time economy of bars/restaurants and clubs.

Fucking hate this gender neutral shit

It’s not ‘neutral’ - it’s mixed sex or rather ‘men in the ladies’. I remember the right on days of the 70s when unisex was tried - it failed.

But then that was back when we knew that a man in a floral dress with long hair was a man (and so did he). Doesn’t anyone watch classic TOTP any more?

A lot of women do their make up and brush their hair in the ladies. I wouldn't do that with a man watching me.

Adjust underwear. Squeeze odd spot. Get changed. Cry. Hide of having a bad day/panic. Swear about annoying colleagues/client/boss. Cadge a tampon from another woman if period arrives early. Take off item of clothing to try to get stain out and dry it under the hand dryer.

All of which you're going to be at your most self conscious about in your tweens and teens, which also happens to be when boys are at their most likely to torment you about it.

For the millionth time - sex segregated toilets are an almost universal norm. If you are proposing that we change that then the burden of proof as to why we should and what the benefits of doing so would be are on you. Nobody should be expected to defend keeping things as is.