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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Not having sex with someone because they don't have the right genitals is transphobic. No prizes for guessing who's claiming this

559 replies

Doyoumind · 30/09/2019 12:37

RM is busy trying to justify their support for a particularly unpleasant tweet yesterday. For those of you who are blocked, I'll add some grabs.

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justasking111 · 30/09/2019 18:45

I clicked on the link re: twitter it said I was blocked. This puzzled me because I never comment on twitter, how odd.

Doyoumind · 30/09/2019 18:54

Justasking you probably follow someone who has had all followers added to a block list.

The thing that gets me every time with RM is how much they remind me of my abusive ex (father to my DC). The narcissism, the arrogance, shutting down debate, the vitriol. I know this kind of thing has been pointed out before but the similarities are stark.

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Ereshkigal · 30/09/2019 18:55

I do sometimes wonder if Rachel is conducting a psychological experiment on the lines of what's the most outrageous, offensive thing they can say or do and some people will still go along with them

It wouldn't be that surprising given that RM wrote a book about deceiving people (I enjoyed the three reviews)

https://www.amazon.com/Norms-Assertion-Palgrave-Innovations-Philosophy/dp/1137521716#aw-udpv3-customer-reviewsfeaturee_div

SomeDyke · 30/09/2019 18:55

I think perhaps part of the intention here is to do exactly what some people are, in all innocence, doing on this thread. Conflating sexual orientation with sexual preferences. It in effect minimizes what lesbians like myself are saying -- I don't want to have a relationship with you, not because of your funny genitalia, but because you are a male. Not because of your hobby, or your appearance, or your history, but because you are (and always will be) male. And you will remain male whatever surgery or hormones you have, however you dress, what hobbies you do or don't take up.

But of course, TRAs would like us to pretend that sex and biology aren't fixed, that it is what is inside that matters, that I should be attracted to someones secret inner female essence, whatever their actual sex. That actual biology and sex don't matter, and that like other sexual preferences, we can be taught to accept them if we try hard enough and convince ourselves that we are bad for feeling that way. Actually, I have heard that argument so many times when it comes to actual sexual preferences (try it, you might like it, why be so vanilla...........).

Of course, we all know that it is only women who get so berated for trying to have actual boundaries. Same ole same ole, we know misogyny when it comes through the door. Very male, every time!

Ereshkigal · 30/09/2019 18:59

Seriously, I'm increasingly thinking we need to organise a massive campaign aimed at teenaged girls, school packs, the lot, all about consent and what every female has a right to in their relationships and treatment by others.

So on board with this.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/09/2019 19:01

Two of those three reviews wanted to give the book zero stars. I'm not sure the third was any keener.

Ereshkigal · 30/09/2019 19:03

I agree, Somedyke. Yes anyone can remove consent at any point for any reason. But what is being discussed here is homophobia. Non acceptance of the right to exclusive same sex attraction. I don't think we should lose sight of this.

Ereshkigal · 30/09/2019 19:07

And yes of course this applies to heterosexual people in the same way, but the fight for gay and lesbian rights and acceptance by society is an ongoing one. It's incredibly regressive that members of the LGBT community are perpetuating it.

TemporaryPermanent · 30/09/2019 19:16

Sorry, somedyke. You're absolutely right and my post was unhelpful.

WrongKindOfFace · 30/09/2019 19:21

Absolutely fair point, Somedyke, and I apologise if my post was unhelpful.

testing987654321 · 30/09/2019 19:32

3. If by 'funny looking vagina' Rachel means a penis then that's ridiculous

I would be amazed if McKinnon meant anything else.

similarminimer · 30/09/2019 19:34

So a woman who is sexually attracted to and sleeps with women and trans men is transphobic? Is that right?

ErrolTheDragon · 30/09/2019 19:38

If by 'funny looking vagina' Rachel means a penis then that's ridiculous

B-but wouldn't that be transphobic?Shock

Datun · 30/09/2019 19:42

It's not just confined to lesbians, of course. Straight women, straight men, gay men, all of it.

If sexual orientation is now based on the eye of the beholder and their sartorial choices.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 30/09/2019 19:56

Maybe McKinnon actually identifies as Hopkins

Eugh, now I've made myself feel queasy

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 30/09/2019 19:58

I really don’t know who should be more offended (can’t care less telly).

justasking111 · 30/09/2019 20:01

@Ereshkigal the reviews are awful, must be an awful lot of books been pulped.

Michelleoftheresistance · 30/09/2019 20:12

One narcissist to rule them all

Grin

There's plenty of contenders for that particular preciousssss.

Seriously, how do we start a campaign about consent and what females should expect in treatment from others, particularly in sex and relationships? Basically all the stuff pinned on the Relationships board. The stuff the NSPCC should stand behind in all circumstances absolutely regardless of whether that other person is male, female, trans, NB, Vulcan, Elf, unicorn or riding a Nazgul, because that is not relevant . Can we do this through one of the amazing women's groups up and running?

MouthyHarpy · 30/09/2019 20:28

For someone so hellbent on being called a woman, RM seems to really hate women. Interesting

It’s something I’ve noticed about quite a few transwomen: Paris Lees and India Willoughby spring to mind.

And then there are the Karen Whites and Jonathan Yaniv of this world, whose hatred of real women is taken to extreme lengths.

StinkyHouse85 · 30/09/2019 21:11

"Date genders, and just learn how to have fun with their sexy fun time bits, whatever they happen to be."

But this is what I genuinely don't get assuming that RM and others who say these things are serious - why is it not OK to be attracted to a particular sex but it's fine to be a particular gender?

If lesbians are "vagina fetishists" then why aren't people who are attracted to "women" (using their broad definition) lipstick fetishists/high heel fetishists/[insert stereotype here which apparently defines what a woman is now]

Also, unless RM is arguing that everyone should be pansexual (which I don't believe they are) then it's terribly unfair on the NBs and people with more obscure gender identities (eg moongender). If people are still saying that they are straight, bi or homosexual and meaning that they are attracted to male and female genders

StinkyHouse85 · 30/09/2019 21:13

Ugh posted to soon! Was going to add, "then that's exclusionary of all the NBs etc. Isn't that transphobic?!"

TemporaryPermanent · 30/09/2019 21:30

Just suddenly feeling incredibly sad. That's because of personal stuff going on separately from my sex life. But I'm thinking about what works now for me in sex, and what I used to think ought to work for me. I spent so many years trying to make myself like certain things when what I needed to do was connect with what really rang my bell. How determined TRAs seem to be to make sure that women do not have the sex lives they need for themselves.

Findumdum1 · 30/09/2019 21:32

Get the impression this trans thing hasnt gone exactky as RM planned and hes not getting much bedroom action. Toxic male still toxic when pretending to be a woman shocker.

ThatCurlyGirl · 30/09/2019 21:34

Sorry @TemporaryPermanent sounds like you're having a tough time I hope it gets better soon Thanks

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 30/09/2019 21:34

I mean why wouldn't you want to bed a Cheaty McCheaterson? What could be more of a turn on that someone who was failing in their own category so decided to cuckoo the shit out of another one, usurping rightful female participants?

That's hot stuff!