Abortions

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

I'm not sure MN is the place for women to come for advice about abortions as so many forced-birthers or even 'I could never have an abortion" people/shills come on to every thread where a woman's in a terrible situation and is wavering.

I would advocate abortion in every circumstance a woman will be tied to an abusive man, I really hate the rhetoric that abortions are to be regretted or will cause pain. I think that the idea that abortions are or should be regretful or morally bound is very harmful to women.

Morally I agree with termination up until birth. I know that's an inflammatory position, but I think it's an humane one. And one that would be chosen by few desperate women.

But I think until the point of birth a woman must have volition in law.

I wasn’t spoken to about my mental health pre abortion and nor did 2 professionals say if it was okay or not, I just went to the doctor really upset and said I’m only 18 and this isn’t what I want, and I asked for an abortion and it was set up, it was 1999 so maybe things were different then.

Female I had one this year, legally the abortion still needs signing off by 2 doctors but never in person. After the consultation, scan and seeing the nurse, my details were forwarded and signed off while I was back in the waiting room before being called in and given the tablets.

Ahh that’s obviously why I don’t know about it then Sagrada, thanks.

I think forced abortions should also be done on some circumstances
For example addict who have already screwed their unborn babies up
Some people can't look after themselves never mind bring a baby into the world

I wasn’t spoken to about my mental health pre abortion and nor did 2 professionals say if it was okay or not, I just went to the doctor really upset and said I’m only 18 and this isn’t what I want, and I asked for an abortion and it was set up, it was 1999 so maybe things were different then.

No, you did not have a termination signed off by one doctor. That would be illegal. Another doctor would have co-signed your doctor's recommendations. Abortions in the UK are almost entirely based around a workaround of the law. You would have had a ground C termination, which is only legal if TWO doctors sign a form to say that your physical or mental health would be severely impacted. We do not have choice-based termination law in the UK.

The system basically operates as though we do, but everyone involved knows it's a workaround of what the law actually says.

Lang I was thinking that 2 doctors wouldn’t have signed it off for me all because I didn’t see them doing it, I forgot that they would’ve had access to my file and then signed it.

I think most women in the UK that want an abortion will get one, unless it’s used as a form of contraception which unfortunately, I’ve heard that some women do this, they are getting an abortion like going to the doctors.

An excellent post Barracker.

Sorry meant to read ‘they see getting an abortion like a trip to the dentist’

unless it’s used as a form of contraception which unfortunately, I’ve heard that some women do this, they are getting an abortion like going to the doctors

Why do you think this? What would make women prefer termination to contraception, do you think? Do you think this is common? And, if so, why is it "unfortunate"?

1) women aren't free to choose an abortion in the UK. They operate under a patriarchal system that requires two doctors to make a judgement about her mental health for the most part

That is not how it works in reality. The facts of the number of abortions and that women from the Republic of Ireland still travel to the UK belie that. The UK (excluding NI) has one of the most liberal regimes in the world.

And abortion after 24 weeks is allowed in extreme situations.

We do not have choice-based termination law in the UK

That is not the reality of what actually happens.

One of the Nurses told me that day that I went for an abortion, I think I must’ve said something about feeling guilty (though I don’t remember feeling that way so perhaps I just felt I had to say it to the Nurse, plus I was just 18) and the Nurse -whether she should have said it or not- was perfectly lovely and said I shouldn’t think that way and it was my decision and if I felt I was too young then I probably was, etc, etc, she then went on to say “I have seen some girls in here more than once, and one girl even told me ‘contraception makes me put on weight so I can’t go on the pill and men won’t wear condoms”, and I have heard, through the years, that some other women do this and it’s sick, getting an abortion is something that you don’t want more than once, I doubt it’d be good for your body to keep having it done and I would feel tremendously guilty if I had had a handful of Abortions just because I was too vain to get on the pill.

That is not the reality of what actually happens.

Yes, I know this. And you know that I know this because I said, in the same post:

The system basically operates as though we do, but everyone involved knows it's a workaround of what the law actually says.

Please don't cherry pick and quote me to imply that I meant something I did not. It's rude.

The facts on the ground are that we do not have legal choice-based abortion in the UK. The de facto choice-based system that we have is based on a legal workaround and therefore could be removed at any time with no change to legislation.

If you don't understand this to be a feminist issue, I'm afraid I can't help you.

I was too vain to get on the pill

What makes you think that women who have had more than one abortion are too vain to get on the pill and not, for example, leading chaotic lives that they may need help with? Or are being abused by a partner - we know controlling fertility is a common factor in domestic abuse. Perhaps they have substance dependency issues? Who knows? I cannot even imagine why vanity would mean a woman would prefer termination to contraception. That's one of the weirdest things I've seen anyone say on here.

I agree that a woman shouldn't be forced to give birth if she doesn't want a child. However, I think the 24 week cut off point for abortions (in the UK) is horrific. You should know by then whether you want a baby or not. Most women know they're pregnant way before then.

Of course, if the mother's life is at risk or if there's something wrong with the foetus then late abortions are acceptable.

Because of what this one woman said and because of what I’ve heard, it may seem far fetched to you but it goes on, not all women are being abused, some women are just quite unstable emotionally and mentally, or just selfish, i wouldn’t say getting an abortion was a major deal for me, it was what myself and the baby’s dad wanted and I don’t regret it for a minute but it’s not something I’d want to repeat.

I never understand worries about women who may use abortion as a form of contraception.

Surely someone who sees multiple abortions as a preferable option to using any contraception is likely to be living a fairly chaotic life and makes poor judgement calls in other areas. Not exactly the kind of person that would be a responsible and reliable parent to multiple unplanned children.

With respect to the OP views- although I’m pro choice (voted to Repeal in Ireland), I find that opinion really alienating. Someone upthread said they’d been Peak Pro-Choiced and I can understand that after reading some of the mental gymnastics from people justifying abortion of healthy babies up to term as opposed to induction of labour.

I’m in NI now and it’s a battle of blood sweat and tears trying to reframe abortion as an essential part of healthcare for women here, 60 years after the rest of the UK. I cringe when I think of opinions like OPs being used by the pro life crowd as examples of what happens when abortion is legislated for.

I know what your saying Terrible but there’s something really off about women that choose abortion as contraception, it’s awful.

Cool username OP, I've had this username for a few years now, if I was trolling I think I'd be a bit more subtle.

I started this thread because I see more and more often, women posting in difficult situations who are advised that abortion will be disastrous for them, that abortion will be traumatic etc. This is emphatically not the case, having a baby with an abusive man would be much more traumatic than an abortion.

And the numbers of women having late abortions are very, very small, and the circumstances in which they're carried out are usually traumatic, but less traumatic I think than a young victim of rape hiding her pregnancy and birthing alone, in secret and then killing the baby as has happened.

Very late abortions are an act of humanity I think, the idea that a potential life is sacrosanct to the detriment of an existing one isn't.

I think the principle of physical ownership is more important than than the idea that the state can dictate to women when they lose ownership of their own bodies, that they merely become a vehicle for life and their own life is seconary.

23% of pregnancies in England and Wales and 18% in Scotland end in a termination. For all intents and purposes the UK (excluding NI) has abortion on demand.

Canada has the best abortion laws. You can get it at any time and don't have to state a good reason like they pretend you have to do here

In theory. In fact the ease access to abortion facilities is variable as is finding a doctor who will do a post 20 week abortion if there is a need for it and it's not free.

Would you like to see more women imprisoned for ending their pregnancies Sparklynails77?

Which legal punishment would you advocate for a woman who decides for whatever reason, she is not going to continue any further? Would you be in favour of detaining women who you deem to be a flight risk, perhaps to a country with a different time limit?
What's your favourite method of punishment for women who choose a health outcome that is actually safer for their own bodies, but they make it after your personal time limit? At what point are you content to force a woman to bear a greater danger to her own health than she needs to, because your right to endanger her exceeds her right to make her own decision about her own health, taking no other consideration into her mind than her own health?

Continuation of pregnancy is always a bigger health risk than termination.
At what point do we compel women to undertake risk to themselves for the benefit of another?
When do women stop being owners of themselves and start being owned?

Surely someone who sees multiple abortions as a preferable option to using any contraception is likely to be living a fairly chaotic life and makes poor judgement calls in other areas. Not exactly the kind of person that would be a responsible and reliable parent to multiple unplanned children

Yes I agree. However such people are of course gold dust to the anti-abortion lobby. The OP here says her desire to carry on smoking precluded the use of an effective hormonal contraceptive.

But HairyHands, where are you seeing this? On AIBU? What you're describing isn't my experience of MN at all. When I posted for support with my abortion, I received just that. Loads of support and empathy, women even offering their experiences which helped me out no end. Even looking on 'pregnancy choices' before deciding to post my own thread, no where did I see forced birthers or propaganda or guilt tripping. MN as a whole is known for being pro-choice, any trolls quickly get their arses handed to them. I've seen that a lot.

The de facto choice-based system that we have is based on a legal workaround and therefore could be removed at any timewith no change to legislation

I don't think that is likely to change but the sort of thing which is likely to change minds is the sort of thing the OP has been posting.

ButHairyHands, where are you seeing this?

MN as a whole is known for being pro-choice

I wondered that too. I'm not sure what agenda the OP has for this thread. If she wanted to create some helpful screenshots for anti- abortion lobbyists she has probably achieved it.