"Girls must bow to trans rights in new rules for schools"

[Igneococcus]

In the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girls-must-bow-to-trans-rights-in-new-rules-for-schools-xxs8t5mn5?shareToken=3bbd28acf03ed3d2916e912216677322

Well, I’m sorry. I’m still in the dark.

A person is protected under gender reassignment if they undergoing or proposing to undergo a process for the purpose of reassigning their sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

I understand the physiological part, and as I understand THAT, no school child can undergo or propose to undergo those changes in the UK: they must be 18.

So it would seem that for schoolchildren to be protected under gender reassignment, these “other attributes of sex” must be elements schoolchildren can change.

Other than physiological characteristics, what is the law defining as attributes, say, of members of the female sex?

Schools would need to know that in order to ascertain whether or not a student is changing one or more of those attributes, or proposing to change one or more of them, in order to reassign their sex and therefore fall under the gender reassignment protection.

What attributes are specifically female that, under the law, a boy must change or at least propose to change if he wants to undress with girls instead of boys?

Does he need to grow out his hair? Or at least propose to? Or does he also have to change his name — are names attributes of sex? Should he made to wear skirts, even though girls wear trousers? Should he be sent to voice lessons to practice a higher pitch and softer tone? What about make-up? Though again, many girls wear none.

The law really does need to clarify all this.i would be quite interested to hear a judge rule on what, beyond the physiological, are attributes of the female that should be codified as definitional.

Headmistresses and teachers, in order to sort which boys are taking the piss and which are not, are going to have to know what criteria to use, since, as we know, self D. is NOT the law. The law clearly does require a commitment to making certain changes. It just fails to state what those changes are.

“Proposing to undergo” also needs clarification. Many of us propose, every day, to make all sorts of changes. And yet....

To add: in the US, the Obama administration issued a directive that workers at women’s refuges would know that a male seeking admission should be considered a woman if that male displayed womanly “clothing, behavior, and mannerisms.”

And it too failed to define just what are womanly “clothing, behavior, and mannerisms.”

Now, the proposed US Equality Act does away with all that. A man is a woman if he says so, and a boy is a girl if he says so. Women and girls must submit to the word of a male.

This is the Scylla and Charybdis the entire insistence that TWAW sails between : either the law must redefine women in such a way that there are sufficient criteria to determine when a man is a woman, or a boy is a girl, and when he is not, and at some point those criteria have to be spelled out — or it has to be self i.d.

Protecting TW as dysphoric or non-conforming men would have avoided the inevitable sexism in legally defining attributes of female sex beyond the physiological while also avoiding legally codifying the male supremacy inherent in self i.d.

But as we know, TRAs will not accept that.

Which is not the fault of women or girls. Nor is finding a solution the responsibility of women and girls.

Exactly, bickerin. If the ECHR are proposing actions that they feel are supported by the law, then we will need to have these characteristics defined in the law.

It will, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint, expose how utterly regressive this whole plan is, because the list will consist entirely of sex role stereotypes. Hair, clothes, make up, mannerisms, preferences.

The sharetoken has expired, here’s a new one

This will be awful for all girls. However, it will be particularly bad for girls from certain religions, most of whom will probably be removed from P.E.

A group that’s rarely talked about in these discussions is travellers. We have done a huge amount of work in our school to build relationships with families from travelling communities and to improve the attendance their children. Those families trust us to keep their children safe in school, and to tell the truth about how we’re doing that.

I guarantee they would remove their children - boys and girls - en masse if we told them we were allowing boys to change for PE with girls and that our toilets were now mixed sex.

As the mother of an 8 year old girl I'm now imagining this will at some point affect her and I will be forced to speak out and be labeled a bigot which I am not.
I'm also thinking thaf for genuine trans kids this can only serve to make their life more difficult at school with all the girls outrage or ickiness towards them. If they just provided their own facilities they could just get on with it with minimal fuss and attention being drawn

Sophocles
That doesn’t work unfortunately. I read the article last night. Terrible.

If the ECHR puts this in practice it is not fit for purpose.

If you were to add together all the groups who for various religious or cultural reasons absolutely will not tolerate their daughters undressing around their male peers and then measure that number against the number of male children who wish to be treated as if they were girls, by what percentage would the former group be bigger than the latter, I wonder? Seems an odd way for a democracy to handle things, disadvantaging the many to benefit the statistically very few.

Just google voyeur + swimming pool or leisure centre ( obviously you need to search news only or you get lost ads of prom ) and there's dozens of incidents of men perving on women and children in mixed sex facilities.

I will take my children out of school if this happens. They all - boys as well as girls - have the right to single sex facilities.

And while this article rightly focuses on girls, let's not forget that the vast majority of children who say they want to transition are girls. This is putting them at risk.

Oh, crap, sorry if the sharetoken didn’t work. I am technologically challenged this morning

www.facebook.com/100003299679086/posts/2743335569119739?sfns=mo

A man taking enormous pleasure in smashing women's boundaries and sharing it so other men can also enjoy it. This is where we are heading

Try this: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-rules-for-schools-ignore-the-rights-of-girls-3ckz6h739?shareToken=d261fae73b13e7228bf6b866efcc5b76

That person wants to pour pop rocks into his pretendy vagina, according to the Facebook thread. Which is totally a typical woman thing to do and not at all the product of a rather odd fetish.

I'm torn between thinking that seems unwise and shrugging and going "well, not my problem if it hurts and you have to explain why you did such a stupid thing to a doctor at accident and emergency".

What should we do as parents? Do we write to the schools stating our children do not consent to this? Do we tell our children to refuse to change in a mixed sex changing room?

I know dds secondary school will abide by this - she’s yr7. I received a lovely email from the English teacher Friday saying how well dd has done and she referred to her as “they”, no mention of female pronouns. I wanted to scream and bang off a “my daughter is a girl, please refer to her as she” response but resisted the urge.

I had to google pop rocks = popping candy. Weirdo.

Orchid
Yes, how can that be?

So if there are a minority of children with a diagnosed issue here - and if advised that they need to be away from their actual sex for changing/showering (so everyone aroundbhas to act ‘as if’ basically) - that doesn’t automatically mean that they should be put with the opposite sex.

If there is a humongous jump in children announcing that they are actually trans - then that’s a social issue surely? Why now? Why so many?

And why does a girl who feels ‘boyish’ or doesn’t like dresses or pink automatically equate to ‘shove her in the changing rooms and showers with the boys and get her on the rugby team’.

But they won’t demand that a girl gets out with the boys. Why is that then?

And for girls who have had to endure a boy in their spaces - so how will they feel if the lad decides, hey ho I think I’m a boy now (or do ‘a Bunce’ - Monday’s, Wednesdays and Fridays I shall be using the girls changing rooms...’). Girls will beep humiliated and violated but hey, then boy got what he wanted.

Transgender is a load of nonsense. I will stick with the olde term transsexual thank you very much. Gender means nothing.

How messy. Like a ‘cut and shunt’ car.

Fekko

Oh good grief. Your own personal fleshlight

But what do they use to line this new fetish hole if not penis skin?

Section of the bowel, I think.

Watched episode of ‘botched’ recently. These are meant to be more caring surgeons with a more sensible approach to surgery; they decline to do surgery on some surgery addicted individuals (including a transwoman who wanted to look more like a sex doll). But even these surgeons if seemed that it was the surgical challenge that held their interest. It is easy to see how other for surgeons this, and money to be made, are the overwhelming drivers with little consideration of the mental or physical health of the individual or their motivations.