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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Girls must bow to trans rights in new rules for schools"

256 replies

Igneococcus · 14/09/2019 20:42

In the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girls-must-bow-to-trans-rights-in-new-rules-for-schools-xxs8t5mn5?shareToken=3bbd28acf03ed3d2916e912216677322

OP posts:
JoyceJeffries · 14/09/2019 22:13

The Guardian? Unilad is more credible.

TinselAngel · 14/09/2019 22:16

The disrupter bus has pulled up I see, trying to distract people from discussing the topic of the thread.

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2019 22:17

asdfghjk111

Right, let's do this logically, love.

There are how many trans murders in the US per year? 20-30 max. So that means over 10 years only 300 generously estimated. How many non white MTFs do you think there are that the median or mean life span of an MTF of colour would be 35?

The thing is, I know where that often quoted stat comes from. It isn't the US. It is one study of about 50 trans prostitutes in Buenos Aires. And btw the report you linked to (which also isn't talking about the US) doesn't refer to an average lifespan of all MTFs but the average age at which they were killed. However many were killed whether 5 or 500 they were relatively young on average. Tragic, yes. But what you are claiming is fake news. Stop spreading uninformed emotionally blackmailing crap,

So no, not thick. I don't care whether you think I'm heartless. My priority is the rights of women and girls. That's what feminism is about. And what FWR is about. You might prefer Everyday Feminism or Pink News.

Wurzelsnewhead · 14/09/2019 22:18

Lots of typos there Confused :
Biological males with male bodies who have no right to be in spaces reserved for biological females.

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2019 22:19

The Guardian? Unilad is more credible.

Grin
Somebodyswatson · 14/09/2019 22:19

Not on the windup. Also think I'm going to stop using this website as I didn't realise this was generally accepted opinion amongst the people I was talking to. I don't expect any of you to be upset about that but hey ho. I guess at the end of the day I just think it's a good thing that you lot don't get to make the laws

TinselAngel · 14/09/2019 22:19

Why aren't those decision makers just saying bog off we don't agree to do that?

A combination of being too lazy to think independently and a craven fear of being accused of transphobia.

StealthPolarBear · 14/09/2019 22:20

" do you really think teachers aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a child living as a girl and a boy messing about?"
Of course they'll be able to tell the difference. In the same way we can see that Jessica yaniv is very different from the (presumably) thousands of 'normal' trans women who are just living their lives and don't make notoriety.
But it won't matter. Teachers won't be able to do anything with the knowledge they'll have. Just send the girls off like lambs to the slaughter.

twelvecolourfulbirds · 14/09/2019 22:20

I'm not white love, don't try playing identity politics with me. People of colour are sick of your cultural appropriation of our struggles.

Nor am I transphobic. I'm not scared of trans women because they are trans. I am scared of them because they are men with, by and large, intact and functioning penises.

Yes, gender dysphoria is a condition. It's a mental health issue that should not be encouraged by affirming self destructive tendencies. Just like the weight dysphoric anorexic should not be encouraged to believe they are fat and need to eat less. You do realise that, under self ID, no diagnosis of gender dysphoria is required.

BrendasUmbrella · 14/09/2019 22:21

Amazing that it's got to this point. Do they realize how many hormonal teenage boys will quite happily state they want to "explore their gender identity" if it gets them into the girls changing rooms for an ogle?

SmellbowSpaceBowl · 14/09/2019 22:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Apollo440 · 14/09/2019 22:25

Nice to see TRAs are still peddling their bullshit statistics. Conflating the life expectancy of trans prostitutes in favelas with non sex working transwomen in the UK. You do know that transwomen in the UK are slightly less likely to be assaulted than other groups. So actually one of the safest demographics. And we knew your concerted campaign to report everything as a hate incident was so you could spout more lies about being the most marginalised group in history. Personally I'm happy for gender questioning individuals to play 'girls' sports but they can use a 3rd space to change and go to the toilet. Why isn't that satisfactory?

TiredofthisBS · 14/09/2019 22:26

You're not going to guilt trip anyone here, Somebody. As someone said that ship has long sailed. If you cannot see the damage this ill thought out and sexist draft will do to children then that's on you.

We care. We care about ALL children. If we didn't we wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to protect them from being harmed. It's a shame you can't or won't see that.

zebrasdontwearbras · 14/09/2019 22:26

That Guardian article refers to actual transphobia. Almost exclusively violence and harassment perpetrated by other males.

But why should this threat of male violence buy you a free ticket into women's spaces? We are not a "male violence at risk group" - otherwise many other males would also be allowed to use women's toilets -young men, frail men, gay men, disabled men. All of these are at risk of male violence, but they're not allowed to use women's toilets- because women's privacy is for women only.

Plus women now know all too well that this will be abused by men wanting to assault and perve on us - sorry - too many Karen White cases now to deny this.

Feminists here uphold trans people's right to live as they like, free from harassment., but also uphold women's right to single sex spaces.

Sort out male violence - women have been trying to do this for centuries - perhaps as fellow males you'll have more success.

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2019 22:26

I didn't realise this was generally accepted opinion amongst the people I was talking to

If you think most people think males can be women/girls you're in for a shock. I suggest you step into the real world.

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/09/2019 22:27

I cannot believe anyone could claim this to be in line with ensuring all rights of children are met under the Equality Act. This is the complete opposite.

terryleather · 14/09/2019 22:29

Saturday night is transperbole night.

Anyway, here's some Magdalen...

"Girls must bow to trans rights in new rules for schools"
truthisarevolutionaryact · 14/09/2019 22:30

These are predatory values, not inclusive values.
Once it is enshrined in "law" that girls MUST undress in front of boys self identifying as girls (or be excluded) then these girls will believe that they have no right to consent (as will boys also wanting same sex spaces).
And then we will have a generation of children believing that the demands of strangers and members of the opposite sex to watch them undress, share their toilets and breach their personal boundaries matters more than their right to say no. And that will never be acceptable.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 14/09/2019 22:33

I’d happily change in the same room. There isn’t enough eyeball bleach to cleanse their pool male eyes from that sight.

bd67th · 14/09/2019 22:38

And do you really think teachers aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a child living as a girl and a boy messing about?

They already can't and don't until a boy/transgirl commits a sexual offence: mobile.twitter.com/TracyXXs/status/975379101761486848?p=v

twelvecolourfulbirds · 14/09/2019 22:39

So, somebody asked what can we do?

As someone who has spent years pumping money into my kids' school and giving them a full time job's worth of unpaid labour, withdrawing my support for a start. Sorry, but if my head won't stand up for my children, I won't stand up for them. If every woman who props up schools did the same, the system would collapse.

I will not allow my children to play for school teams if the school will not
protect my children. Inter school sporting tournaments can be prestigious for schools.

Civil disobedience. I just refuse to cooperate.

vanillaicedtea · 14/09/2019 22:40

I think pronoun/name changes should be respected as long as there's been a proper consultation with the child, parents and a medical professional. It doesn't impact on anyone else, other than that one child, but the school needs to explore whether the child is serious about transitioning and it isn't just an attention-seeking phase.

A unisex toilet needs to be made available for those who do not conform to the stereotypical norm. If those with disabilities can use a disabled toilet without complaining that they feel 'left out', and accept, it's a facility that has been set up so they feel more comfortable when changing/using the toilet, so should those who are transitioning. It's the only way in which girls can feel comfortable, and that child who is exploring another gender, can change in relative privacy while doing so. Nobody needs to be looking at the other gender's body parts while in school. It's, at the least uncomfortable, and at the worst, dangerous.

We need to have a philosophy in education where everyone is free to explore who they are, and carry out the necessary measures to do so. But no one else is to feel uncomfortable or at risk due to these explorations. So children who believe that they are the wrong gender can change their names, wear another uniform and such, but cannot do things which make other students feel uncomfortable, like having shared changing spaces.

No one should have to bow down to someone else.

littlbrowndog · 14/09/2019 22:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 14/09/2019 22:46

Should we supply a separate toilet for people who don’t fit into a stereotype box?

Gender isn’t sex, and that is the basis we segregate on. Not feelings or hunches. Biology. Something tangible not ideas in the head.

littlbrowndog · 14/09/2019 22:46

And we shouldn’t be teaching kids to lie

At school