Hey FWR - "We need both sides to live with some compromise "

[pombear]

Warning: This thread will spontaneously combust after 10 posts!

As part of this 'complex subject' a poster started a thread to highlight that a trans activist appeared to have posted a twitter gif that implied they were 'dancing on the grave' of a prominent feminist who sadly died today.

The thread was deleted with this message:

Message from MNHQ: We're sorry to hear some users are not happy with our modding of trans discussions, and our updated Talk Guidelines.
This is a complex subject which is very hard to moderate, and since the two fundamental positions cannot easily be squared, it's likely that both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward.
We realise that this will likely be frustrating to many, but we are convinced that our goal must be to support civil and constructive debate.

Civil and constructive debate?

Women point out destructive and uncivil debate from a trans rights activist,

Women also point out the biological sex of this activist.

Women are deleted and schooled in how they must refer to this destructive and uncivil 'debater.

both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward

Women - shut up, compromise, live with the 'contradiction' (in this case, does it mean you must only talk about the person who is shitting all over women's spaces and rights if we use the right pronoun?)

Live you life in such a way that McKinnon will celebrate when you’re gone

Please, people on this board, please don't claim to speak for all women. You don't.

But we do. Yes, even those who don’t agree with us, even those misguided and gaslit ones who have been led to believe they have to be kind and inclusive even when it puts them in danger or erodes their rights. We speak for them just as we speak for girls too young to speak for themselves.They may think they don’t want or need us to speak for them but we do anyway because the rights of all women and girls are at risk, yes, even theirs.

They may think they don’t want or need us to speak for them but we do anyway because the rights of all women and girls are at risk, yes, even theirs.

Precisely. When women are speaking for women's rights and the necessity to uphold current law, they're absolutely speaking for all women.

Women who do not wish to uphold current law, are speaking for no women.

I prefer to keep my thoughts about McKinnon to myself as I think the only comment that might stop them in their tracks is, 'Rachel who?'

However I think the restored thread illustrates how MN's policy on pronouns is unworkable. There's no logic to it. One of the things I respect about MN is that they're not afraid to hold up their hands when they've got something wrong so I really hope they're now going to pause and reflect. Like birds I am a tiny bit optimistic that this might be a significant moment.

Wow this thread is really something amazing.

I'm glad MNHQ reversed a terrible decision but they really do need to #BeMoreMagdalen and put women and girls first. After all we are your current and future user base, when something is harmful to us as a class I would expect MN to have our back.

Great to see AAK back here, you have been missed.

Credit where it's due to all the Scottish women MSPs making their feelings known. Scottish women have been on fire as late, I'm grateful for their bravery and pushback.

They may think they don’t want or need us to speak for them but we do anyway because the rights of all women and girls are at risk, yes, even theirs

^^Here here.

a lot of women were disgusted by the suffragettes.

I hadn't realised the thread has been re-instated. Congrats to the OP for starting this thread and motivating others to comment.

I had thought when I logged in today this thread would also have gone.

Is this a tiny victory?!

Hope MN look at the rules properly, the 'not in the spirit' deletions are the most annoying as they seem so random. I've come to assume any deletions are for minor misdemeanours now.

It does feel very unbalanced in terms of rules and concessions

underthebridgedowntown

Late to this but seriously @MNHQ? You really got this spectacularly wrong. And it's time you stopped appeasing TRAs who are trying to bully women because they use the correct sex descriptor.
MK is a man. MK may wear womens clothes, and compete against women on his bike (cheating) but was born a man, had (has? ) a penis. Says really vile things about women ( despite apparently wanting to be one) , particularly about the sad death of a woman who stood up for women and truth all her life.
TW are men or if we are being kind,
TWATW, but TW are not, and never will be women. No amount of glitter, "feelz" clothes, makeup, surgery or anything else will make a natal born man into a woman.

Don’t say you speak for me

Who did? Please quote the post/s claiming to speak on behalf of 3.8 billion women. Or did you make that up to justify your post?

the inhumanity with which some on this board speak about trans people

Receipts or it didn’t happen.

If TRAs respected that certain female-only spaces exist to protect vulnerable women, we would not have to talk about TW being male.

TRAs are so immersed in white (and often male) privilege that anything that excludes them is a denial of their humanity.

underthebridgedowntown

I’ll just nip over the twitter site of that vile human and read your comment where you told him how disgusted you are with the fact that he and his odious supporters are celebrating the death of a young woman. You did do that, didn’t you? Or do you reserve your outrage for actual women?

MNHQ showed us who they are and now they want to take it back and continue to pretend to be all about civil discourse.
They took a side against Feminism when they wrote the special rules for Trans and they have been gaslighting us ever since.

underthebridgedowntown
As pp have said speaking up for women does not mean speaking for all women, there is a difference, educate yourself.
The comments about McKinnon on this thread have nothing to do with his trans status.
I don't think that it's inhuman to post derogatory comments about a vicious, misogynistic inhumane person. A person that is expressing glee and happiness about the death of a courageous, outspoken, funny and honest young woman.
Magdalen voiced the truth. It is not hate to fight for my rights, it is not hate to speak the truth. Human beings cannot change Sex.
Be more Magdalen

The inhumanity with which some on this board speak about trans people is also vile.
I'd rather be rude than an effing liar.

underthebridge

I understand that if you aren't overly immersed in all of this, you might genuinely believe what you've written.

So for the sake of clarity, I'm linking to a website where a selection (by no means all) of the more 'interesting' views held by men about gender critical women, have been archived. It may change your mind, it may not.

But I'd urge you to have a look. Just so you have a more balanced picture when it comes to telling uncomfortable truths in the name of protecting our rights, vs vile comments and actual threats.

TERF Is A Slur

Grr my post should have said RM

Side note - the truths don't have to feel uncomfortable. They don't for me anymore, and haven't for a long time. The discomfort some are feeling is your female socialization being used against you. Once you realise that it's easier to say nope, not happening, not going to be guilt tripped into putting men's feelings above the needs of women and girls.

Absolutely.

So fucking what if some TRAs get their feelings hurt. I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.

I will not compromise when the opposing side wants me to die in a grease fire then dance on my grave.