Hey FWR - "We need both sides to live with some compromise "

[pombear]

Warning: This thread will spontaneously combust after 10 posts!

As part of this 'complex subject' a poster started a thread to highlight that a trans activist appeared to have posted a twitter gif that implied they were 'dancing on the grave' of a prominent feminist who sadly died today.

The thread was deleted with this message:

Message from MNHQ: We're sorry to hear some users are not happy with our modding of trans discussions, and our updated Talk Guidelines.
This is a complex subject which is very hard to moderate, and since the two fundamental positions cannot easily be squared, it's likely that both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward.
We realise that this will likely be frustrating to many, but we are convinced that our goal must be to support civil and constructive debate.

Civil and constructive debate?

Women point out destructive and uncivil debate from a trans rights activist,

Women also point out the biological sex of this activist.

Women are deleted and schooled in how they must refer to this destructive and uncivil 'debater.

both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward

Women - shut up, compromise, live with the 'contradiction' (in this case, does it mean you must only talk about the person who is shitting all over women's spaces and rights if we use the right pronoun?)

HQ - could you not post something along the lines of you understand that compelling people to call men she can be exploitative and abusive, if that man wants it to be. And so, you will take a view when people do. And in this instance, it's understandable.

Reinstate the thread on that basis, without deletions.

And just explain to posters why it is exactly you have that rule in place, in the first place. Maybe tell us what you have to deal with. It will promote support, rather than fear.

It's always better to make an honest attempt to communicate.

Had not seen the deleted thread, but from what I have read here, shame on you MN.

And just explain to posters why it is exactly you have that rule in place, in the first place. Maybe tell us what you have to deal with. It will promote support, rather than fear.

Yup. We can guess, but we don't know.
My own speculation is informed by the fact that a mod who used to sometimes seem quite hard on FWR moderation left, and under her own name is GC. So my assumption is that she was trying to keep some level of discussion open, even if it couldn't be free speech.

But maybe there's some gagging order shit in play.

This event has led me down a rabbit hole which has resulted in me discovering that RM is on the record as saying that the sex that he had with his trans widow during his marriage was actually "rape".

Imagine retrospectively publicly accusing your wife of rape, on top of all else that the poor woman must have endured.

I'm not going to provide a link as I don't want to increase traffic to RM's blog from MN, but it's easy enough to find.

Mostly I don't post as I can't think of anything eloquent or well written to add.

But I think its important now for all lurkers to add a few words of support.

MNHQ - your deletion message was chilling, I support all the women's voices on this thread

Oh bloody hell, accidental correct gendering in my previous post.

Rhys McKinnon is an XY, penis having MAN. There's no two ways about it and I won't be coerced into believing otherwise. I'll say it on every thread until I'm deleted.
@MNHQ you have gone too far.

A light truly went out yesterday. RIP MB.

Tinsel OMFG

We realise that this will likely be frustrating to many, but we are convinced that our goal must be to support civil and constructive debate.

'Convinced' by whom?

Why not listen to the users of your site?

RM is a man.

I rarely post here any more as spinster allows me to speak simple truths whereas MN censors women horribly. I was reading the deleted thread and with every post my hopes were raised that MN had seen sense and was letting us state facts - one being that RM is a hateful misogynist. And a man.
The deletion message is truly shocking. I am speechless at the side that MN has picked. Magdelen Berns has died and you defend the piece of filth that posts a gif celebrating her death?
MN should be very ashamed.
I hope that one day they look back on this decision - in fact this whole episode of coercive speech and bullying of clever, witty, strong women - with horror.

I say again. RM is a man.

RMcK is ramping up because they can only control the narrative here, and on twitter.

Spinster and KF has really wound them up. RMcK is actively engaging with KF via twitter responses, and it’s not going well.

And like any good abuser the weakest in their lives suffer for the injury others inflict.

I know that it would be deemed more polite to shove our awareness of McKinnon's biological sex so deep into the wardrobe that it's having tea with Mr Tumnus but unfortunately that's no longer a realistic option when the individual in question is a. doing grave harm to women's sports and b. openly rejoicing in the death of their perceived enemies. There's a point at which even the most passive and accommodating individual has to draw the line.

@birdsdestiny
I suppose MN has the additional pressure of their advertisers as they are often targeted. But whatever they do it will never be enough. Ever.

The flip side of that is that the fewer places women have to speak honestly, the more women flock to the places where they can. FWR traffic has increased enormously AFAIK, as women are pushed off platforms like twitter and facebook.

How many TW are buying the things advertised on MN? Compared to women posters?

And before MN states that they did not 'defend' him - pulling the utterly ludicrous 'misgendering' card to me is defending him and the ridiculous and harmful ideology he stands for.

RM is a man.

I agree Mrs Wednesday, here is my support for the women on this thread who are more eloquent than I am. I was reading the thread last night and thought the deletion message was wrong. There should not be a compromise here.

Well my estimate was wrong.

Oh bloody hell, accidental correct gendering in my previous post.

The context there was a point in the past and in relation to his transwidow. I'm not submitting to doing the pronoun dance in that context and seriously hope MNHQ don't expect you of all people to do so.

How is your oppressed rallying cry for 'civil and constructive debate' working out so far then MNHQ??

I'm so furious and disappointed I can't work out whether it's better to stay or go. Fucking handmaidens, everywhere, bowing down.

I am Magdalen.

BTW, a while ago it was mentioned that MNHQ were compiling visitor statistics. Were they ever shared?

Also: a feminism board is supposed to centre females.

Not force them tiptoe around on eggshells in response to the demands of males.

It's always better to make an honest attempt to communicate.

Quite.

MNHQ - you can't moderate a forum that is in unanimous revolt.

I'd suggest some good faith engagement. And by that, I mean do not patronise us with elision and obfuscation.

I did not know how low men could go until I saw those horrendous tweets about a young woman dying.

I cannot believe MNHQ would support this man. Even Harrop backed away, didn't he?

THREAD IS BACK

Harrop did indeed apparently discover that there's a point at which even he can't justify supporting some trans activists. One might speculate as to this having to do with him being an actual doctor of the paid to try to save people's lives rather than celebrating their deaths variety.

Another lurker here. I can't express my feelings anywhere as eloquently as others have up thread, but wanted to add my outrage at the decision to remove that thread. McKinnon's behaviour was disgusting and people deserve the right to be able to express their anger and make sure others are aware of what he had done. That isn't someone I would compromise with, or be polite to, when they were celebrating the death of a young woman who died of a horrible illness.