Hey FWR - "We need both sides to live with some compromise "

[pombear]

Warning: This thread will spontaneously combust after 10 posts!

As part of this 'complex subject' a poster started a thread to highlight that a trans activist appeared to have posted a twitter gif that implied they were 'dancing on the grave' of a prominent feminist who sadly died today.

The thread was deleted with this message:

Message from MNHQ: We're sorry to hear some users are not happy with our modding of trans discussions, and our updated Talk Guidelines.
This is a complex subject which is very hard to moderate, and since the two fundamental positions cannot easily be squared, it's likely that both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward.
We realise that this will likely be frustrating to many, but we are convinced that our goal must be to support civil and constructive debate.

Civil and constructive debate?

Women point out destructive and uncivil debate from a trans rights activist,

Women also point out the biological sex of this activist.

Women are deleted and schooled in how they must refer to this destructive and uncivil 'debater.

both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward

Women - shut up, compromise, live with the 'contradiction' (in this case, does it mean you must only talk about the person who is shitting all over women's spaces and rights if we use the right pronoun?)

Go ahead and capitulate to an abuser. You will never, ever satisfy the ravenous appetite. They want this whole place shit down, @MNHQ - you know that, right? Nothing you do, nothing you say, no reactions or rules or modding decisions will be enough. They want this place destroyed. Where is the compromise in that?

And this is entirely true. Or if not shut down, to impose the same sort of controlling language on women talking about female bodies and issues that they do elsewhere. As pp said this is abusive behaviour. Watch your own coercive control video and for the love of god have some training in how to recognise it.

It’s not compromise when you’re on an asymmetric starting grid… it’s nothing but capitulation and appeasement.

Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. Humans cannot change sex. Biological fact.

Human reproductive biology is relevant to humans.
Seahorse reproductive biology is relevant to seahorses.
Clown fish reproductive biology is relevant to clown fish.

Radfems merely describe material biological facts.
Genderists prescribe gender roles and stereotypes, in order to be recognised as a man/woman.
Social conservatives enforce the conflation of womanhood (ie adult human female) and femininity (and likewise for manhood & masculinity).

Manny McManManMan. Bite me.

“It’s not hate to defend your rights, and it’s not hate to speak the truth”

#RIPMagdalen
#BeMoreMagdalen
#IAmSpartacus

Remember who your core user base are. It's not many men who provide you with revenue. Put women first for once. Listen to what we are saying and stop pandering.

I keep checking that this thread is still here. So far, so good...
But until they reinstate yesterday’s my pure disgust at MNHQ continues unabated.

This is a complex subject which is very hard to moderate, and since the two fundamental positions cannot easily be squared, it's likely that both sides will have to live with some compromise and even contradiction if they wish to move forward.
We realise that this will likely be frustrating to many, but we are convinced that our goal must be to support civil and constructive debate.

The patronizing tone of this is truly irksome.
Is this a board for discussing feminism or for dick pandering?
Both sides can't be squared because TRAs like McKinnon are fucking abusive males. Do the moderators here have even have a clue about what that means?
If compromising with people like that is the way forward, we need to be going in some different direction.

So tired of this.

I didn’t post on the deleted thread because for me personally I didn’t want to give attention to a disgusting POS on yesterday of all days. I can completely appreciate why it was there though and I was following it.

Posting that vile crap on such a day is just like those unhinged American military funeral-picketing homophobes who use other people’s grief as a way to gather attention for themselves.

I saw no transphobia on that thread, just condemning the behaviour on that utter POS.

Misgendering is in the eye of the beholder and MN taking away an important discussion and evidence of how such people will celebrate loss of a human life even on a day of that loss, just because some narcissist wanted to compel women’s speech in discussing this absolute insult, is fucking unbelievable.

Surprised to see this thread is still here this morning. Not surprised to see that MNHQ haven’t bothered to engage. Short sighted prats.

PS meant to add, you can’t compromise with abusive behaviour. It’s never safe to do so because no compromise is ever enough for them.

It’s not compromise when you’re on an asymmetric starting grid

As McKinnon knows full well.

"Compromise with this person who would love to dance on your grave"

No. Not going to do that, and neither will anyone else with any sense whatsoever.

Thank you for the grim laugh Harriet

Not surprised to see that MNHQ haven’t bothered to engage.

Well, I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt that - assuming there's a proper mod on Saturdays - they've just got in, made themselves a naice coffee, fired up their machine and are just at the 'what fresh hell is this stage' trying to read faster than we post.

Maybe we should give them a chance to read and reflect?

HRTFT but I agree with Magdalen Berns and Posie Parker, both of whom have said they will never pretend that a man is a woman, and never use compelled speech.

I keep checking that this thread is still here.

The other thread is also still there, and includes a uni contact email some might be interested in.

Lang you are right. I tend to go with male but thought I would be banned.

I got deleted for saying I would leave the Ladies’ if an intimidating male person came in. My comment was deemed “not civil.”

The other person’s comment [that I’m bitter because TW are more feminine than me “despite the piece of meat between their legs” 🤮😂] was fine.

The deletions and warnings only make sense from a TWAW perspective (TWAWJLBWAW, more precisely).

So many eloquent responses that I cannot hope to emulate. I am posting to show the strength and depth of feeling about this from posters and to say that

I AM DONE WITH BEING NICE

By the way, if anyone has heard of the term 'gaslighting' but is unsure what it actually looks like in action, what Rachel McKinnon is doing right now (or attempting to do) is a classic example.

It has to been seen to be believed really!

So basically MNHQ is telling us that we should capitulate to abusive behaviour.

Nice one MN!

No compromise ever.

I got deleted for saying I would leave the Ladies’ if an intimidating male person came in. My comment was deemed “not civil.”

Gosh, fear and concern for one's own safety are so impolite. If one is a properly socialized young lady one knows to hide one's discomfort behind a winsome smile and a banal conversation.

[to and about no one in particular]

Cannot hold on my phone - but Kittens that was an amazing post.

JustineMumsnet you are better than this.

There is no compromise to be had when someone floats over the death of a young woman.

FFS gloats not floats.

I got deleted for saying I would leave the Ladies’ if an intimidating male person came in. My comment was deemed “not civil.”

Is this really the same MN that set up the We Believe You campaign?