Toilets - what do we want?

[Mxyzptlk]

We don't want men in women's toilets, okay.
Do we want single sex toilets as they've been until now? Can those be maintained against the trans onslaught?
What about the trans rights we say we care about? How can they be upheld without affecting women's right to safe toilets?

What do you think would be the ideal situation, fair to everyone?

Ideally - female toilets, disabled toilets, family toilets (with toilet, changing table and potty/child sized toilet), male toilets, and unisex toilets (the kind that's one fully enclosed room for one person at a time)

The best toilet set up I've seen had one male loo which had a cubicle and two urinals, one unisex loo, and three female loos and all of them but one (3rd female loo) were accessible with plenty of space to take your kids in and potties and changing tables.

Probably best not to click any links posted by zoklet.

I just want female toilets, exclusively, for women and girls.

Men can sort out their own toilet provision.

Doesn't really matter what you or I may be ok with, though. It's the needs of women for whom it is a big deal that matter.

(That was to gigiga not Kite, obv)

I do not consent to sharing certain spaces with men. It is irrelevant if some other women say they're fine with men in women's spaces. That is your choice.

I disagree. And your choice does not get to override my choice.

I will not accept men in women's toilets, changing facilities, sleeping areas, showering, hospital wards etc etc etc.

I can’t speak for all men but not sure what is meant about why men can’t budge up? Forgetting all this gender identity (bollocks) stuff for a second I don’t and wouldn’t have any objections to male people in male toilets. I didn’t believe this was an issue and the issue was trans women not wanting to or refusing to use the ‘mens’ rather than men kicking them out. As a man who is becoming wound up about the trans issues I’d prefer these men in dresses to be in the men’s with me rather than hassle women and wouldn’t be a danger to such trans women either. I’m a bit of a weakling and many of these males could beat me up quite easily

I don’t consider trans women as women though. As for the other way around I’m not worried that trans men pose a threat to me. I’ve always said women have got the shitty stick. Practically because men are physically stronger and more violent as a sex overall but also because the trans women who exist seem to be a lot more combative than the others. Ultra camp feminine males have been upsurped (vocally at least) by a bunch of huge masculine ‘lesbians’.

For consistency I’d have to concede trans men being kept away from the gents but isn’t something I worry about.

Far from being a LGB rights issue as all the woke people like to portray it as I think this will be a scandal years ahead like the PIE campaign. How people have forgiven the likes of paedo sympathisers like Harriet Harman (who I have no doubt wasn’t actually in favour of child sex abuse) who did so because of being on the left and not understanding not everything non right means good. Used to admire Tatchell. His own child sex chat was dodgy but tried to accept him but do not understand how any rational and nice person can defend some of the filth hiding in plain sight. Pretty much every high profile trans women who’ve managed to attach themselves to a major political party in a senior role have rapidly failed not to be a pervert

It blows my mind that someone like Challoner could cause so much damage in the Green Party and they’ve managed to get away with not acknowledging it. Blows my mind even more that in the full knowledge of this the Lib Dems not only chose to accept them (maybe rejecting would be slightly difficult) but then actually try to make it a virtue and selling point. And people wonder why people are ‘right wing’????? Donald Trump might be a loon but his trans stance makes him the sensible one on this sole topic compared to lefty Elizabeth Warren with her gender pronouns on Twitter and complaining that a female (real one) should have had to search someone’s balls at airport security

A brand new poster who “doesn’t care if a she-male [sic] is pissing next door” and finds the whole discussion “meh” as they never sit on the toilet to use it. Interesting.

With female + gender neutral options, all trans people - NB, TW and TM have a gender affirming space, which self-identified “c*s women” can use too.

People who don’t want or need single sex spaces do not have to use them. They can use the gender neutral space.

Please don’t blame men for this catastrophe as haven’t heard of any men personally trying to shunt these trans women off to be ladies. Unless by blaming men you mean the men purporting to be women which I agree with. I’ve also read online about misogynistic ‘cis’ men (hate that term) who are enjoying the feminists getting what’s coming to them but come on now. We’re talking about tiny proportions of men. The reason why trans women are invading the female toilets has fuck all to men booting them out and is all to do with these trans women insisting on going there. Subscribing to trans women are women means they want to go to the women’s facilities.

Thanks Caucho yes we need men to stand up and say you “TW, TM, NB can pee next to me”!

What if we replaced Men’s with Gender Neutral, thus making it inclusive of TW, TM, NB and “c*s” women?

I never sit when I use the loo, so I don't have to worry if a man or a woman pees outside.

WTF? How are these two things linked? "Silly women - just hover over the seat and you will no longer fear being in enclosed spaces with males!"

No, I don't care if they use the toilets, there are separate doors.

How do doors improve safety? When rapes and murders have occurred in women's public toilets, the "separate door" has never helped (in some cases, it delayed discovery of the crime).

I even think they belong more in our toilets. Let's say you want to retouch your make up or wash ur teeth or whatever and u look like a girl and dress like a girl but u are in a males toilet.

I can't relate to this at all. If you are male, you have a right to be in the male toilets. Just tell any haters to sod the fuck off. Or demand affirming, gender neutral spaces without reducing female toilets.

Also, I reiterate, I would not hesitate if I am pressed and the mans toilet is empty- that's where I am headed- I am a woman.

K.

I am not the most trans supporter there's a lot of things I disagree but man, some people really want to make things complicated.

We really don't. We want to minimise the risk of sexual or other offences in female spaces.

I can assure you, many of you have shared a bathroom with a trans without knowing

I see this from TW a lot... I have to say it tends to come across like... "No One HAs EvEr sHoWn tHaT thEy'Ve CloCkED mE sO AlL tHe C*s wOmEn MuSt fEeL SaFe AnD REspECt mE aS a LaYDeE & iF nOt U CaN SUck My GiRldIcK LoL!"

[Btw I know many TW use male spaces without issue and feel safe there - I totally appreciate and respect that, it is a diverse population, just like any group].

also @Caucho kindly commented earlier that TW should be safe in male facilities, its good that more men are coming out in support of TW in their spaces :)

I even think they belong more in our toilets.

Gigiga I'd like to know if you're including my second rapist under "they" here. Does this person, who still possesses the penis with which he raped me but identifies as a woman, really belong more in the ladies' than the gents'?

If you are in fact advocating to let my rapist have free access to the public toilets I have to use if I wish to spend more than an hour at a time outside my home, can you explain why the wishes of a rapist are allowed to override the needs of his victims in this way?

I'm not trying to make things complicated. I'd just like proponents of genderist ideology to accept the fact that my ptsd recognises bodies, not gender thetans.

Let's say you want to retouch your make up or wash ur teeth or whatever and u look like a girl

But most of them don't.

(And in case my “clocking” comment is unclear - when I have clocked TW, I certainly don’t betray that knowledge (I hope!) so I would assume they think I didn’t realise.)

Gig
We have always known it's a TW however due to how we've been socialised, fear of repercussions if we were to challenge etc. we just haven't spoken up. Don't mistake our past silence for either not knowing or acceptance.

Let's say you want to retouch your make up or wash ur teeth or whatever and u look like a girl

But most of them don't.

No, they don’t. As for ‘like a girl’ - have a look at the #girlslikeus on Twitter. Or maybe don’t.

I can assure you, many of you have shared a bathroom with a trans without knowing

I can assure you that's bollocks. We can all tell men from women and many of us have noticed men in our facilities and even avoided using toilets because of them.

We're not blind, or deaf, or lacking a sense of smell.

Let's say you want to retouch your make up or wash ur teeth or whatever and u look like a girl and dress like a girl but u are in a males toilet.

Well, according to Fionne Olander (I don't know whether he looks like a 'girl' by which I assume you mean 'woman' in the flesh or not, he appears feminine in photos) it goes something like :

Bloke: 'are you a guy'
Fionne : 'yes'
bloke: 'well, you're a very pretty guy'
Fionne: 'thank you'

Simple, huh?