Toilets - what do we want?

[Mxyzptlk]

We don't want men in women's toilets, okay.
Do we want single sex toilets as they've been until now? Can those be maintained against the trans onslaught?
What about the trans rights we say we care about? How can they be upheld without affecting women's right to safe toilets?

What do you think would be the ideal situation, fair to everyone?

But both my partner and I agree that toilets are really pretty low down the scale on the list of important issues right now. I'd rather critical services be focused on. Life and death matters.

I guess that means this poster thinks that the status quo of female and Male loos should be retained; this necessitates no costs, merely that men are accepting of transwomen and don't threaten let alone harm them when they use the correct sex loos.

I'm not sure this is the right feminist answer but I think from a safety point of view it would be better to have gender neutral, then open up the design of the outside space but make the cubicles more enclosed. I fear meeting a man (dressed as a woman!?) in a confined ladies toilet. At least if toilets were gender neutral you could anticipate the situation.

And how would “anticipating the situation” help you ?
Perhaps it might help you decide not to use the loos, or not to go out as there won’t be a safe loo that you can go to ?
Mixed sex loos are disgusting. Women hate them. They are also dangerous. I would use the Ladies in department stores when out shopping as a young teenager. I was five and a half stone at 14. Don’t think I would have stood much chance against an adult male predator.

I think it's fine to have gender neutral cubicles that exit into the public area. Where else would they be? The important thing is that there is a distinct separation between the women's facilities and other groups, because women are the ones who are physically vulnerable.

Why would transwomen even want to use the ladies room? The men's room has special equipment like urinals that is specially created for THEIR special equipment, which the very great majority retain. How one uses a bathroom, including the level of vulnerability one has, is about one's sex, not one's gender identity (and no, dressing up in women's fashions does not equalize the risks).

I don't think that issue of men leaving the door open when there are unisex cubicles has been mentioned. Also, having to queue up outside unisex cubicles with men in certain situations (bars/clubs in particular) doesn't appeal. I don't know what the answer is if we can't just have females in one and males in the other.

I don't know what's wrong with me tonight but I had to fight the temptation to just answer with 'usually to wee'.

1. Female only - for female people who want/need it

1. Mixed sex - for male people and for anyone else that wants/needs it.

I know many man would prefer a male-only option. However, their risk for sexual assault and even murder does not increase in a mixed sex space (unlike for women) so this is the lesser of two evils.

public toilets are a low priority and that too many organisations want to look as if they are supporting equality but don’t want to invest in refurbishing traditional stalls.

But you don't need to refurbish anything to keep ladies and gents toilets just as they are?
Why do we need to have any unisex toilets at all?
I don't particularly like sharing the toilet with boys at home let alone in public places.

It appears there are men on this thread telling women that our toilets are a 'low priority' and apparently 'nobody cares' and 'there's no point trying to change things anyway.' Hmmm, I wonder why.

I'm a woman who has experienced rape, domestic abuse and I've also been mugged and had my belongings stolen all by men. I think I'll decide whether I want to keep campaigning for female only toilets, whether they matter or not and whether or not they are a 'low priority.'

I personally see them as a very high priority. I don't feel safe being in enclosed spaces with most males and have had enough terrible life experiences at the hands of men to know that it is deeply unwise to trust unknown men because sadly a lot of them prioritise their penis and their feelings over the rights and safety of women and girls.

The fact that there are even men on this thread, lecturing women about our own toilets, kind of proves my point.

I agree another - male people telling women that our needs are “low priority” and that we’re selfish for discussing them. What a joke.

Women who identify as ‘C*s’ (like Mhairi), who want gender neutral toilets, can support the conversion of male ones into gender neutral (mixed sex) and use those. Sorted!

I still maintain that the need for a blood transfusion or life saving emergency treatment, for example, are higher on the list.

Oh for goodness sake Brie! Do you seriously imagine there are any situations with people sitting in a meeting discussing whether to pay for blood transfusion or toilets? Straight up choice, one or the other?

I still maintain that the need for a blood transfusion or life saving emergency treatment, for example, are higher on the list.

Whataboutery, tiresome though it is, aside: you have an unwitting good point here, dear. Why not address this to the orgs, institutions and local authorities who are busy spending pound almighty on rebranding, rebuilding and reorganising existing, sex-based provision?

Why are you here telling women?

Why are you here telling women?

Because women need to be told.

Because women need to be told.

Also: the nefarious ones might walk into the gents, look at his trousersnake and.... er.... laugh?

Don't forget that very important bit. It means a lot to Brie.

He's here telling women because he's Class A arrogant.

Good point Lang. Until very recently the default was separate female and male toilets. Money is now being spent on changing them.

As long as toilets are clean I don't care what gender are using them.

Loads of gender neutral toilets where I live. You don't even notice anymore.

Cleanliness is far more important.

As long as toilets are clean I don't care what gender are using them.

Sex.

I personally don't care either Regina but lots of women tell me they do, and I'm prepared to listen to them (especially since many of them back their opinion up with reasons).

This whole debate always reminds me of the way the debate about homosexuality went when section 28 was repealed.

Ugly prejudice from people I would normally expect to be kind and tolerant. 😢

Female toilets, disabled and gender neutral. Do away with the mens

This is perfect!

But of course, as long as we have de facto self-ID which is not legal in this country then we can't always be sure that the female toilets are only for women.

Anyway unless you are checking what people have in their pants you will probably not know what gender they are.

Anyway unless you are checking what people have in their pants you will probably not know what gender they are.

Let's not get too detached from reality.

Sex. We recognise what SEX people are. Our safety depends on it.

You can’t help but know what gender people are these days as they tend to screech on about it and get terribly upset about it all.
You can tell instantly tell what sex people are without looking in their pants too (unless they’ve squandered loads on surgery, in which case it may take a little longer).