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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:54

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

it had a bearing in me not transitioning and I had to fit in becuse I was expected to, like going to karate or wanting to feel like I fitted with People around me and not to the group that I was not expected to relate to.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:55

Yay 900 lol

Bespin · 22/08/2019 22:56

littlbrowndog

it's not the weekend I only drink at Weekend and it's mostly gin.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 22:56

like going to karate

you do know that women do karate right bespin?

not liking karate does not determine your sex, or even (god help us) your gender.

it's part of your personality

PurpleCrowbar · 22/08/2019 22:57

do woman only exsist In relation to there sex?

Well, no. We exist in relation to all sorts of things. I frequently give my sex very little thought at all, on a day to day basis.

However, 'women' are of the female sex. That's it. That is who we are. If you are not of the female sex, then you are not a woman.

sackrifice · 22/08/2019 23:00

Karate?

Bespin · 22/08/2019 23:00

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

yes I totally know that I used to wish I was one of them who went where I did. but I was not going for me I was going to meet my father's expectation that I could defend myself even if I didn't want to fight.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 23:01

I'm the only opposing person on this thread so when a number of people decide to gang up on one it can often appear like bullying.

Maybe a person who expresses such should present rational arguments for why such a person is in opposition?

Bespin · 22/08/2019 23:01

Marshall arts lol

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 23:03

not to the group that I was not expected to relate to

by which I guess you mean you related to women?

could you explain what this 'relating to' meant? what is it about women that you relate to?

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 23:04

just checking that you know it's OK for men to relate to women bespin ?

encouraged in fact

RedDogsBeg · 22/08/2019 23:05

The way women, adult human females and girls, juvenile human females are treated within society is absolutely, unequivocally related to their sex.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 23:09

But don't you think that society becoming more accommodating of people who step outside stereotypical behaviour is a much more progressive solution than people modifying themselves to 'fit' what society expects?

yes genuinely I do, I think we will possibly not exsist [sic] in 1000 years time that people will not need to do this that gender will not have such an impact on poeple [sic] that don't feel it matches there sex.

I rather suspect that people who believe such should be speaking with men about these matters rather than speaking with women.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 23:09

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

yes I agree with that but when you are 6 and you feel you are just like your friend and can not understand why people tell you, your not and that no you can not do what she does.

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 23:10

even if I didn't want to fight.

Most martial arts are designed for people that don't want to fight. They give such people the ability to defend themselves if somebody picks a fight with them.

Any good martial arts instructor will tell you that the first line of defence is to try and avoid a fight.

Martial arts are particularly useful for people who for whatever reason are vulnerable to people picking fights with them.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 23:12

TinselAngel

brilliant this thread don't half cover a lot of stuff. are we going to debate martial arts now. lol I o lu did it for like 6 months

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 22/08/2019 23:12

It's just that you seem to be offering the fact that you related to females during your childhood as a motivation for your transition bespin ?

I know I'm a bit of a stuck record on this subject, but given that you have stated that you understand that humans can't change sex, I'm fascinated to know on what basis you believe yourself to be a woman

you are certain you are a woman, so you must be very certain what one is?

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 23:13

I think we will possibly not exsist in 1000 years time that people will not need to do this that gender will not have such an impact on poeple that don't feel it matches there sex.

Why do you think people need to do this now? It's not the 19th century. There are no longer roles in society which are only open to men or only to women. We can all do whatever we feel suits us best, regardless of our sex. Our personalities are not dictated by our sex.

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 23:15

are we going to debate martial arts now.

You brought it up.

Given how you felt in your youth, it's a shame you didn't stick at it. It would have helped your confidence. It can do wonders for young people who lack confidence or don't fit in.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 23:15

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

yes I'm very certain it was a motivating factor being a young trans person, lots of us older ones did used to be young trans people. it's why we know trans children exsist becuse we did too.

Bespin · 22/08/2019 23:17

TinselAngel

I'm sure it does.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 23:17

I refer all to autogynephilia:

this analysis explains it well for the lay person: [see middle section]

"Autogynephilic Gender Dysphoria (Adolescent Boys and Men)"

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

AllNaturalWoman · 22/08/2019 23:19

Bespin I'm curious as to why the style, grammar & punctuation of your posts vary quite so much?

zebrasdontwearbras · 22/08/2019 23:21

I'm seriously beginning to think it's all autogynephilia.

OldCrone · 22/08/2019 23:22

According to what you've told us, bespin, you knew you were trans as a child because you preferred the company of girls and you liked to do the things they liked to do. Also because you didn't like playing with boys and they bullied you. Have I got that right?