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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Two trans journalists quit The Guardian, citing transphobia

163 replies

Popchyk · 15/08/2019 13:34

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/two-transgender-employees-quit-guardian-transphobia

Lawsuits against The Guardian to follow, no doubt.

The article is quite funny in its po-faced declarations of transphobia (and no evidence whatsoever to back them up).

That's what happens when you indulge, indulge, indulge.

They turn on you. They always turn on you.

Look at A Challenor and the Green Party, after everything the Greens did for the Challenors. Challenor quit, citing transphobia.

OP posts:
littlecabbage · 15/08/2019 13:47

What a load of waffle. No concrete examples of transphobia. And comparing their "oppression" to that of refugees, is pretty distasteful.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/08/2019 13:55

The article quotes a report The Guardian wrote, about lobby groups pushing for medical interventions on children, that are unproven in terms of safety.

Clinicians working at Tavistock told us this.

A professor of evidence based medicine at Oxford university, told us this.

But HBomberGuy tells us that's tRAnsPhObic

Right. Whatever. There's still no bloody evidence.

Obviously twitter wants a t*rf hunt at the guardian. Such creepy dudes.

Two trans journalists quit The Guardian, citing transphobia
TowelNumber42 · 15/08/2019 13:56

That article is an inadvertent peaking machine I reckon.

For Victoria, the turning point came in October 2018 when the Guardian published what became a notorious editorial – a leader article setting out its official position on trans rights – which, it said, “collide” with women’s rights and put women at risk. This was despite LGBT organisations and many prominent feminists and women’s groups asserting the opposite.

But Victoria’s immediate concern was that she had to go to work the next day, knowing what her employer’s publicly-stated position was on her. “It suddenly became real,” she said, before characterising her thought process that morning: “I’m entering this building with people who are denying my humanity.”

Noticing that trans rights sometimes "collide" with women's rights equals denying my humanity Utterly ridiculous and I bet most people reading will go "Eh? That doesn't follow."

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/08/2019 13:57

I imagine the Guardian is the least transphobic place on the planet.

aliasundercover · 15/08/2019 13:59

I’m now awaiting news that OJ has resigned in solidarity.

SophoclesTheFox · 15/08/2019 13:59

Victoria’s resignation email, sent at the end of last month to everyone in her department,

I’m not sure you’ve improved your chances of finding a new job with that childishness, Victoria.

The Guardian more than any other paper has skewed towards an uncritical positive spin on trans stories, and a disinclination to fully probe alternative views, so if even that isn’t enough...

I know this is a millennial thing, but your employer really doesn’t have to share all of your values and beliefs to make them a good employer. on a broader point, we are setting a lot of young people up for unhappiness by pushing this narrative that you can only thrive in workplaces that wholly reflect you as a person, that accord with how you see the world, and where only people who agree with your worldview work.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 15/08/2019 14:00

These are some of the most self obsessed people on the planet

SophoclesTheFox · 15/08/2019 14:01

^^ I’m not shitting on millennials by the way, this came from some internal recruitment comms at my work about why millennials don’t want to work for us, because they think big corporates in financial services are horrid and don’t reflect their values.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/08/2019 14:04

Eugh the horrible t*rf scum at the Guardian published this just yesterday
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/15/trans-people-just-want-to-live-a-fulfilling-life-our-mere-existence-shouldnt-threaten-you

Clear transphobia

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/08/2019 14:05

Jesus, if the Guardian is too transphobic for them then they aren't going to find the rest of the world a happy place.

Didactylos · 15/08/2019 14:07

narcissism and drama as both an identity and a political movement
Yawn

53rdWay · 15/08/2019 14:09

Noticing that trans rights sometimes "collide" with women's rights equals denying my humanity

Honestly I hope that people who say this don't actually believe it. Imagine going through life feeling that your humanity depends on getting everyone around you to agree with you. It would be a miserably stressful existence. I think Owen Jones is a total arse whose sexism is so deeply embedded that he can't even see it, but I don't think the Guardian is denying my humanity by paying him.

Wurzelsnewhead · 15/08/2019 14:09

That’s pretty dark reading, this person ended up ‘ scared of using the women’s toilets’ and went back to rushing in and out.
Hold on, isn’t that what most people do at work- rush to the loo or is the done thing these days to take a long, leisurely dump? Is this ex Guardian journalist suggesting male journalists at the Guardian are such a danger to mtf people they can’t use the men’s bogs when the women’s become unsafe? Even Owen Jones ?😲😲

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/08/2019 14:09

Also, the comments.

10 "hearts" for this (and another heart for a simple sentence saying discussion is not transphobic). Would have been unthinkable not so long ago:
I mean, the article was right. Think about transgenderism's reliance on stereotypes of the sexes (but especially women). It literally is in opposition to feminism and gay rights.

("lexifer" is doing the best to spout woke gibberish about how problematic it is but they just come off looking like a lunatic)

RoyalCorgi · 15/08/2019 14:10

Jesus, if the Guardian is too transphobic for them then they aren't going to find the rest of the world a happy place.

My thoughts exactly.

CassianAndor · 15/08/2019 14:12

For Victoria, the turning point came in October 2018 when the Guardian published what became a notorious editorial – a leader article setting out its official position on trans rights – which, it said, “collide” with women’s rights and put women at risk. This was despite LGBT organisations and many prominent feminists and women’s groups asserting the opposite.

I would very much like Buzzfeed to elucidate who these "many prominent feminists and women’s groups" exactly are.

Trohmaniac · 15/08/2019 14:12

This 'me me me' behaviour reflects my students at work - end of year feedback across the board always has some comments from students basically translating into 'why was everything not tailored to ME?'.

It's a poor enough attitude in teenagers who haven't yet gone out into the world - to come across it in supposed adults is pretty telling and I suspect that's why so many older men are suddenly coming out as trans. They're finding the world is shifting away from constantly centring them and they need to be special again.

Trohmaniac · 15/08/2019 14:13

I would very much like Buzzfeed to elucidate who these "many prominent feminists and women’s groups" exactly are.

I'd bet my liver on them being transwomen.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 15/08/2019 14:14

Noticing that trans rights sometimes "collide" with women's rights equals denying my humanity

Noticing that the rights of one protected group sometimes collide with the rights of other protected groups (among other legitimate purposes) is the entire basis of equalities law.
Staggering that this should be contriversial.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/08/2019 14:14

These were my two favourite quotes:

“I have lost some trans friends over this, from working with the ‘enemy’,” she said

Since then, acclaimed writers such as Shon Faye and Juno Dawson, who are trans, stopped contributing to the paper.

ThePurported · 15/08/2019 14:17

Transphobia at the Guardian:

  • an editorial discussing the impact of self-id on women's rights
  • a trans person was scared of using women's toilets
  • a colleague defended the editorial and talked about women's sports
- another colleague “poked fun” at the trans person, asked if she was trans, and told her, “If you went to prison I’m not sure which prison you should go to.”

The last one is a bit rude, but it is staggering to suggest that journalists shouldn't discuss law reforms and women's rights in case it upsets a colleague.

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2019 14:19

"If you don't agree with us, we'll throw a strop".

The role of the media, isn't to validate its journalists identity and political views its to a) reflect the concerns of the public and b) hold power to account

If they cease to do so, they cease to have relevance, they cease to have a purpose - and will cease to print.

Remind me, why did the Guardian soften its hardline pro-trans stance? Was it because it realised it was missing huge issues that the public were concerned about?

Reading this, its totally ridiculous:
For Victoria, the turning point came in October 2018 when the Guardian published what became a notorious editorial – a leader article setting out its official position on trans rights – which, it said, “collide” with women’s rights and put women at risk. This was despite LGBT organisations and many prominent feminists and women’s groups asserting the opposite.

So one group says one thing and the other says the opposite, but only one group should get a say, "cos they say so". Ok. Thats not how public debate works.

But Victoria’s immediate concern was that she had to go to work the next day, knowing what her employer’s publicly-stated position was on her. “It suddenly became real,” she said, before characterising her thought process that morning: “I’m entering this building with people who are denying my humanity.”

No you are entering a building which has realised its purpose is to enable public debate, not validate your identity. Public debate and openness is how you challenge prejudices and misconceptions by proving them to be unfounded. Of course its also how you find where abuses of power have been carried out - see the Tavistock for more information.

Shortly after, during two separate incidents at informal drinks with colleagues, one member of staff who had previously been Victoria’s friend at work defended the article, she said, and began citing trans women in sports as a reason to attack trans rights.

Errr, ok. So other people aren't supposed to have different opinions, they just have to agree with Victoria? And all that matters are trans rights and not acknowledging its a bit more complicated than that.

Good luck with that in court, that'll be an interesting one - The Guardian has to defend itself now - and either admit that its employee can not have this opinion or potentially provide evidence of why this might be considered a legitimate view to have.

Overall, whereas tabloid transphobia might be crass or even funny, she said, transphobic reporting at the Guardian was potentially more dangerous as it intellectualises prejudice for liberal-minded people. “The way it works is [to suggest]: transphobia is actually a ‘woke’ way of thinking. I think it misleads people into thinking the respectable thing to do is to raise these issues.”

What the fuck does this even mean? Intellectualise prejudice? Or just an opposition to allowing critical thinking in liberal minded people? Since when was critical thinking a bad thing?

Many at the paper who share her concerns told BuzzFeed News that the internal divisions over trans rights have resulted in face-to-face rows in the office, a widening rift between the UK and US offices (which is largely populated by pro-trans writers), and moves against staff who protest against transphobia. All of which, sources said, is affecting morale.

Since when did we have to agree with the US on politics? Or since when did we agree that the US was the way in which a left leaning newspaper should follow? You know that hot bed of socialism...

In June, the Guardian invited a panel of LGBT people to an internal event to discuss the reporting of LGBT issues. Christine Burns, one of Britain’s foremost campaigners for trans rights, and an architect of the Gender Recognition Act, told assembled staff that reporting in the UK over the last couple of years has resulted in her feeling “scared to death” for the safety of her community.

This is what happens when you encourage no debate though - there has been a backlash because women were not allowed to discuss their fears about their communities because there has been total blindness to how the trans issue might affect safeguarding. This was a conversation that needed to be had. If there had been this conversation from the state the problems now arising would not have happened. There was a deliberate strategy to get things through parliament 'under the radar'.

All this could have been avoided, if there had been any reflection whatsoever about how taking such a rigid line which didn't reflect public opinion, was going to hit the brakes at some point.

This is what happens when you have too many opinion columnists, rather than journalists writing for a newspaper. If they don't understand what the purpose of a newspaper is for - its not just to promote your individual world view, but to examine and criticially think about things from different view points - and THEN present an argument based on substance to support what you are trying to say.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 15/08/2019 14:20

“I have lost some trans friends over this, from working with the ‘enemy’,” she said

It's very, very easy to lose friends in some social scenes.

Popchyk · 15/08/2019 14:21

Kinda funny to see how this is playing out.

Organisations like the BBC, the Greens, the Lib Dems, the Labour Party, The Guardian - they are the ones who are having all the hassle. Since they are the ones who kowtow to the ideology. And whatever they do, it will never be good enough. We are seeing this now. A factual article about the safety of children who identify as transgender is smeared as transphobic. By your own staff. Who are very clearly working against you.

Meanwhile, other organisations (like the Daily Mail, say) have no hassle whatsoever. Because they never kowtowed to the ideology in the first place. They can write what they want and do what they want.

There's a lesson there, if only someone has the awareness to see it.

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 15/08/2019 14:22

“I’m entering this building with people who are denying my humanity.”

Odfo dear.

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