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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If you ever wanted proof that TRA is the same MRA check this out.

183 replies

TRAMRA · 12/08/2019 19:28

A man. A man who looks like a man, and identifies as a man,
isn't allowed in a women's changing room. How terribly transphobic and sexist. Read the comments and the way he ignores women's concerns, as even if 1 out of a 1000 men, (he kind of forgets who he is meant to be championing here) was bad you shouldn't be able to tar all of male kind with the same brush. one out of a thousand eh? Hmm.

It's all so thinly disguised isn't it?

Well done to the Primark staff who decided that a man demanding he be allowed in a changing room with a young girl, is the last man who should be allowed in.

medium.com/@RJameson/a-recent-experience-has-opened-my-eyes-to-transphobic-bigotry-f5005a4e6497

OP posts:
ScrimshawTheSecond · 14/08/2019 16:45

This person has also written in defense of Jimmy Saville, and something apparently defending 'under age' sex:

www.goodreads.com/book/show/24084427-savile-and-the-loss-of-innocence

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MZ6TRZ1/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i5?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

And also, by the way, offers private tuition to gifted children: imos.org.uk/Tuition.html

Fraggling · 14/08/2019 16:59

Thats v interesting indeed.

M and s need to make clear their fitting rooms are unisex.

Again, why the coyness?

Fraggling · 14/08/2019 17:03

If they have proper locking doors rather than curtains I'm less fussed.

Although there's a thing about going out with your mates when young and trying stuff on meeting in front of mirrors having a look and a laugh etc.

I suspect this is the real reason men want in.

Of course girls won't do this if there's men about. So that's a sort of intangible thing lost. The activism is all about, you must let us in, if not, you can't have it either. Standard mra sour grapes.

I think with women's spaces, for lots of women. It still be, don't know what you've got till it's gone.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 14/08/2019 17:08

Scrimshaw that private tuition link is scary. Private tutors do not currently need DBS checks.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 14/08/2019 17:26

Yes, Endo, it certainly worries me.

LittleFairywren · 14/08/2019 17:38

So many disgusting perverts hiding in plain sight.

JellySlice · 14/08/2019 17:44

Quite encouraging that actual staff behaved with common sense and protected women's privacy. Though maybe they would have let him swan through had he said the magic words "I identify as her mother".

Besides, it's probably bollocks that there wasn't a changing room that he could enter with his daughter. Primark often has a families' fitting room, as well as token men's and women's fitting rooms.

Trohmaniac · 14/08/2019 17:46

Having seen the other articles he's written, I doubt that he even has a daughter or that he visited Primark - he writes steaming turds generally, so why would this latest article be any different.

LittleFairywren · 14/08/2019 17:50

I just downloaded the sample of his savile book. First things first, the standard of his writing is so bad as to be practically unreadable. He also calls himself a philosopher (can just anyone be a philosopher these days?) But he also thinks savile was innocent (no he wasn't, it's either guilty or not guilty. Not innocent.) And that there's too much mass hysteria (nice casual misogyny there) over a pat on the knee in the 60s. Brings up Hitler very early on. There's a name for that isn't it? When your argument is so flawed you have to bring up Nazis?

This person isn't one id want in any changing rooms me or my children were in.

Datun · 14/08/2019 17:57

And that there's too much mass hysteria (nice casual misogyny there) over a pat on the knee in the 60s

Ffs, if I hear one more...

RoyalCorgi · 14/08/2019 18:14

The Savile book sounds very sinister indeed. The evidence against Savile was overwhelming.

I notice that he has published a lot of books on a very diverse range of subjects but most (all?) seem to be self-published.

What a strange man.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 14/08/2019 18:18

Yes, and he knows it's dodgy, Royal, because he's not disclosed a whiff of his real identity anywhere. All cartoons, self publishing, and circling back to his website.

KettlePolly · 14/08/2019 18:32

Sounds fairly likely this an imaginary daughter situation.

MargueritaBlue · 14/08/2019 23:05

Thinking further about this made me so cross.How dare he say that he knows what it’s like to be a trans woman

I agree. I don't think he was showing any empathy with women or trans women. The latter were just a handy excuse for his entitled behaviour.

Gingerkittykat · 15/08/2019 02:16

Additional: Hi there all those incredibly offended people visiting here from Mumsnet! Welcome! It’s fascinating to see so many nasty comments (on Mumsnet) from so many incredibly bigoted people. It’s also fascinating to see people trying to justify their outrage by pretending I was trying to force my way into a women’s changing room. But the facts are straightforward. There was no attempt to force my way into anywhere. I was simply asking the staff to abide by their own employer’s very clear policies. What could possibly be wrong with that? And this was not a women-only changing room at all. This was a unisex facility that Primark themselves say was supposed to be open to any customer who wished to use it

Waves to the troll.

From his own website.

*Warning: My philosophy books, articles and webpages contain deliberately provocative thought exercises. These are exploratory opinion pieces, used for brain-training purposes, rather than to convey any individual's actual beliefs. They push boundaries and challenge prejudices.

If you're small-minded, bigotted or dim-witted, then you may not wish to proceed any further. This stuff is likely to go way over your head and you might just get offended, annoyed and in a tiz and not enjoy yourself at all*

Yup, he sounds like a big hitter in the fields of both economics and philosophy.

RobertJameson · 15/08/2019 02:48

Wow! What a lot of hatred, insults and downright nastiness this thread contains from some incredibly bigoted people!

I've been called a 'twerp,' a 'total dick,' a 'racist dick,' a 'disgusting person,' a 'dangerous man' and 'an absolute cunt' - amongst many other insults.

Some of the people here really are very sad and pitiable - that they don't see anything wrong in being so needlessly nasty.

And so many lies have been told. So much misinformation has been spread.

In no way did I attempt to 'force' my way into a changing room. And this was NOT a women-only changing room at all. This was a unisex changing facility, which Primark themselves say is open to customers of any sex or gender. I simply asked the staff to abide by their own employer's clearly-stated policies. And my opinion on underage sex is that anyone who has sex with an underage person should have the full force of the law used against them.

I'm actually a very kind person - and I don't deserve this sort of incredibly nasty treatment.

What I do do is to write thought-exercises intended to expose people's bigotry and prejudice. And, as this thread clearly demonstrates, I'm extremely good at it.

Nevertheless, the many nasty, bigoted people who've commented on this thread really ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Gingerkittykat · 15/08/2019 03:18

If you are encouraging discussion and debate, why are you so upset when people disagree with you? Could it be that you just want people to think if they agree with you and if they don't it is a thinking error on their part and they are bigots or dimwits?

If you're small-minded, bigotted or dim-witted, then you may not wish to proceed any further. This stuff is likely to go way over your head and you might just get offended, annoyed and in a tiz and not enjoy yourself at all

Your own words, looks like you're not enjoying yourself here.

RobertJameson · 15/08/2019 03:42

@Gingerkittykat

I appreciated your previous comment, which I thought was helpful, but now you're in danger of adding to the misinformation. In fact, I'm not at all upset that people disagree with me. I'm just disappointed that people are so bigoted and nasty. I have no problem at all with them disagreeing with me.

But no, I'm not likely to be hanging around here to make further comments. I don't enjoy the company of bigots. But I do think it is important to expose them for what they are.

I've said my bit. I expect the bigots will just carry on posting insults and lies. But there is the opportunity for people to learn something about their own prejudices - if they have the decency to even try. I hope they do.

GirlDownUnder · 15/08/2019 03:42

What I do do is to write thought-exercises intended to expose people's bigotry and prejudice. And, as this thread clearly demonstrates, I'm extremely good at it.

Please expand.

What and whose bigotry and prejudice are you trying to expose?
Please give examples of the ‘bigotry and prejudice’ in this thread, that backs up how you’ve exposed us.

We have no prejudice toward you as I doubt many of us knew of you until your latest publication, so could form no preconceived idea of you. All the information we have is in your own words.

If we, as a group, have misjudged you by your writing then I’d say that’s the fault of the author not the audience.

SophoclesTheFox · 15/08/2019 04:59

Hi Robert, welcome to Mumsnet Grin

Goodness me, what a lot of times you’ve said “bigot”, there.

If your provocative thought experiments are designed to be controversial and cause debate, why are you so upset when people react by debating them?

Here’s a thought experiment for you: try imagining why women are keen on single sex spaces in contexts where we are naked or feel vulnerable. From your writing it doesn’t seem like you’ve spent much time on that. I think it would pay dividends.

Ps that sexual predator piece was really weird and worrying.

IdaBWells · 15/08/2019 05:06

RobertJameson please be aware most of the posters on MN are women with opinions. Often strong opinions. When men have strong opinions they like to express themselves with much stronger language than “twerp”, “a dangerous man”, or “an absolute cunt”. Have you read Twitter recently? “If you can’t take the heat stay out of the MN kitchen” or don’t publish articles on Medium that large numbers of women are going to find offensive.

Datun · 15/08/2019 06:48

.Goodness me, what a lot of times you’ve said “bigot”, there.

I suspect RobertJameson is incapable of explaining why women and teen girls who don't want pervy, boundary ignoring blokes insisting on accessing places where they disrobe, are bigots.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/08/2019 07:04

Some of the people here really are very sad and pitiable - that they don't see anything wrong in being so needlessly nasty.

Sounds like Richard is keen to dish it out but unwilling to take it. Sorry, mate. That's not how it works.

Datun · 15/08/2019 07:08

And keep away from women's changing rooms.

Floisme · 15/08/2019 07:13

Oh no! Have women been mean to a man again?