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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The English Cricket Board sells out women's cricket

167 replies

NotAtMyAge · 11/08/2019 17:28

Women's cricket is now open to transwomen, who don't even have to reduce testosterone unless wanting to be considered for international games. For the domestic game the ECB is using the 'social model', having, of course, been advised in their decision-making by Stonewall. I don't even like cricket, but this wholesale ignoring of the Equality Act 2010 has made me furious!

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1160503880179998720

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
KatvonHostileExtremist · 12/08/2019 09:18

Again with the 3.3 gender identity

And here again is self I.D

The law on who the protected characteristic of gender reassignment actually refers to, needs to be clarified as a priority.

Danglingmod · 12/08/2019 09:20

That reads as if the ECB has muddled up transmen and transwomen, though, doesn't it? When they say transgender man, I think they mean a transwoman...

Ereshkigal · 12/08/2019 09:27

And they think all non binary people are male. Or they're falling over themselves to disregard that sex is an issue so they've lumped them all into one category to put off male chancers.

Popchyk · 12/08/2019 09:31

11.4 an individual identifying themselves as non-binary may compete in any open competition, league or match and should be accepted by reference to the gender identity in which they present but may not compete in any female only competition, league or match.

It means that any female who identifies as non-binary cannot enter the female competition.

Because the female competition is now reserved for some biological females and some biological males. Presumably all of whom must perform femininity in some way in order to exclude the non-binary people. Giggling and make-up, I'm guessing. There will be ECB officials at every match to ensure that femininity is performed.

Non-binary people can of course identify as both male and female, so I'm really not seeing on what basis ECB are excluding female non-binary people (who may identify as women some of the time) from female competition, but letting men who identify as women in. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Doesn't mention gender-fluid cricketers.

andyoldlabour · 12/08/2019 09:35

Anyone wishing to complain, although I really don't know what good it will do, should email to -

[email protected]

They are so messed up. I wonder how they would deal with Pippa Bunce in points 11.2 and 11.3 above.
They have been advised by the shadow government of Stonewall.

JellySlice · 12/08/2019 09:41

Section 12.3 appears to state that the ECB gets to decide whether or not any transwoman gets to play in the women's game at the higher level. Is this to protect the women's game? If so it is ridiculously nominal and surely impossible to apply, given the other ECB regulations wrt to trans people.

JellySlice · 12/08/2019 09:44

Presumably all of whom must perform femininity in some way in order to exclude the non-binary people. Giggling and make-up, I'm guessing. There will be ECB officials at every match to ensure that femininity is performed.

Natch:

13 ...The ICC uses a “medical” model for governing eligibility in contrast to the “social” model used by the ECB in this Policy.

(Not that there is anything 'natchural' about this whole insanity.)

Popchyk · 12/08/2019 09:48

They've explicitly stated in their rules that some biological females are excluded from women's cricket.

So females who identify as men - excluded
Females who identify as non-binary - excluded

Presumably all the agender, demi-gender bollocks are also excluded. Transphobic bastards.

And that's not to mention the many women and girls who will simply walk away from the sport when Trevor appears in his cricket whites on a Sunday morning. Many women of faith would just disband their teams at that point.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/03/i-can-be-myself-the-british-asian-girls-who-found-freedom-in-cricket

These are young British Asian women who found great personal development through their cricket team.

Their families would not have allowed them to join a mixed sex team.

Datun · 12/08/2019 09:49

11.2 a transgender man may compete in any open competition, league or match and should be accepted in the gender in which they present, but may not compete in any female only competition, league or match;

Are they mixing up the terms, here?

Danglingmod · 12/08/2019 09:52

I think so, Datun.

JellySlice · 12/08/2019 09:57

Are they mixing up the terms, here?

Nope.

7.6 transgender man – a term used to describe someone who is assigned female at birth but identifies and lives as a man; and
^
7.7 transgender woman – a term used to describe someone who is assigned male at birth but identifies and lives as a woman.^

Sicario · 12/08/2019 10:00

I urge you all towards an excellent article arguing for single sex clarification and spelling out the letter of the law here: fairplayforwomen.com/single-sex/

Single sex services & the Equality Act: A new statutory Code of Practice must help everyone get clear what “single sex” means.

Extracts:

The EHRC have previously promoted the idea of ‘trans inclusive single sex spaces’, but this is a logical impossibility, and its guidance to date is inconsistent with the Equality Act.

There are eight specific provisions allowing single sex facilities in the Equality Act.

In addition the public sector duty (Section 149) makes it a legal obligation for local authorities, NHS Trusts and other public bodies to assess how their policies impact on people with protected characteristics, including women and girls.

The Equality Act is clear that ‘single sex services’, and the terms ‘man’ and ‘woman’ relate to the protected characteristic of sex, and that this has an objective defined meaning. A woman is a ‘female of any age’. Thus, there are two sexes. Sex is observed at birth and is stated on your birth certificate. This remains biologically true throughout life.

A straightforward interpretation of the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act is that males are excluded from women’s services on the basis that they do not share the protected characteristic of being female (and vice versa). Any other protected characteristics they have is not relevant.

Many politicians and influential organisations including the Equality and Human Rights Commission have argued that “single sex spaces should be trans inclusive”. This sounds nice, but is impossible (apart from, of course, in the sense that people should not be excluded from or harassed in single sex spaces of their own sex, because of non conforming gender expression).

Transgender people may value ‘gender-affirming services’ (that is services where they are treated as if they were members of the opposite sex), friendship groups and formal associations and service providers can choose to provide such services amongst consenting adults. But it is not a proportionate means to a legitimate aim under the Equality Act to compel people using or providing single sex services to pretend that they do not perceive sex, or to conscript them into sharing spaces where where they are undressing or vulnerable with people of the opposite sex in order to provide them with a gender-validating experience.

Single sex services are already justified under the Equality Act, to achieve the legitimate aim of allowing people of either sex to access services equitably, and with reasonable privacy and dignity, and to address the disadvantages and obstacles faced by women and girls. There is no quid pro quo which says that in order to access these services women and girls must submit to the demand that they provide ‘gender affirmation’ to dysphoric males (nor, indeed that they become unwilling or unwitting participants in someone else’s sexual paraphilia).

[... there is also a lot of information about certain trans advocacy groups misrepresenting the law in order to bully women into giving up their spaces...]. For example...

Stonewall tells schools that it is a “legal requirement under the Equality Act” to allow a trans young person “to use the toilets and changing rooms of their self-identified gender rather than of their assigned sex” (it isn’t).

Popchyk · 12/08/2019 10:01

I think they mean a biological female there, Datun.

So any biological female who identifies as a man is excluded from female-only competition.

Because in order to allow men into the women's competition (which is the whole point of this document), they have to exclude certain biological women.

Because that's how transgenderism inclusion works.

JellySlice · 12/08/2019 10:01

Would be nice, though. Then the regulations would make complete sense and would be compassionate to trans people.

Just imagine:

11.1 any trans person may compete in any mixed gender competition, league or match in their affirmed gender or preferred gender identity and should be accepted as the gender they present or in their preferred gender identity;

11.2 a MALE-BODIED trans person may compete in any open competition, league or match and should be accepted in the gender in which they present, but may not compete in any female only competition, league or match;

11.3 a FEMALE-BODIED trans person may compete in any open competition, league or match or any female only competition, league or match and should be accepted in the gender in which they present; and

11.4 any MALE-BODIED individual identifying themselves as non-binary may compete in any open competition, league or match and should be accepted by reference to the gender identity in which they present but may not compete in any female only competition, league or match.

That is true 'acceptance without exception'.

Manderleyagain · 12/08/2019 10:02

I don't think they listened properly in their Stonewall training.
Either they have mixed up the terms in a very transphobic way, or transgender people have to compete according to their sex not gender id. And if anyone actually followed the nb clause it would be transphobic discrimination of the worst kind (only against females though) and is just the kind of thing people are thinking of when they argue for legal protections for nb people.
That policy is all over the place.

AccioWine · 12/08/2019 10:02

So a biological woman cannot play in the women's team but a biological man can. Aye, alright.

This is the peerage and Masons all over again. Men (however they identify) able to do what they want, women (however they identify) told what to do by men.

Not even an attempt to make it even.

Sicario · 12/08/2019 10:03

Again from Fair Play fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/sports-campaign/

EXTRACT:

Here in the UK many sports clubs now allow males to compete as female if they can show a doctor’s note confirming that they have lowered testosterone into the ‘female range’. Even the Olympic guidelines now state that males who identity as women should be eligible for female competition if their testosterone is

AnotherNightWatering · 12/08/2019 10:04

This policy has been in place since at least 2016.
Do we know this for sure? Is it true? I just find it so difficult to believe. Confused But then, I thought the Oz cricket trans policy was fake news...

Manderleyagain · 12/08/2019 10:06

The policy capture of the sporting bodies has been very thorough. I acknowledge with begrudging respect how effective their influencing and lobbying has been. But it will be this overreach which starts to halt the whole thing.

OldCrone · 12/08/2019 10:14

That policy is all over the place.

An inevitable consequence of basing a policy on an ideology that makes no sense.

Popchyk · 12/08/2019 10:14

I think that if ECB had set out to get as many people to sue them as possible, they could not have done a better job.

They'll have religious women suing them

They'll have women who lost places to men in female teams suing them

They'll have women injured by men suing them

They'll have non-binaries suing them

They'll have gender fluid people suing them

They'll have men who claim to be elite women suing them (because this whole 'case by case for elite female competition' basis is a legal nightmare)

Good luck, fellas. Wonder who the ECB's legal insurers are.

Propertyofhood · 12/08/2019 10:21

All this could have been prevented if they just said no. No, you can't compete with women as you are male, sorry if it makes you sad.

This! Why can't they just say this?

No, you can't use the ladies toilets, use the ladies changing rooms, be put in a women's prison, compete in women's sports, use a women's refuge, take this award that is meant for women. Because you are male. No.

Sorry. If. It. Makes. You. Sad.

JellySlice · 12/08/2019 11:08

This policy has been in place since at least 2016.
Do we know this for sure?

The English Cricket Board sells out women's cricket
AnotherNightWatering · 12/08/2019 11:23

Thanks, JellySlice. This is the link to that jpg
www.ecb.co.uk/governance/regulations/non-first-class-regulations
This, in turn, links to the policy on trans people playing cricket. But looking at the link, it's dated 2019/04/26.

So was it changed on 26 April this year? Was there any consultation?

OldCrone · 12/08/2019 11:26

13 ...The ICC uses a “medical” model for governing eligibility in contrast to the “social” model used by the ECB in this Policy.

Social transition means changing the social and cultural cues you use to show your gender to the world (your gender expression)

Taking a social approach means that respect and inclusion does not depend on whether someone is able to have (or wants to have) any medical intervention.

Not all trans people can, or wish to, transition medically, and taking a social approach means that all trans people can be included and welcomed to play cricket.

A social model is the core basis for inclusion under the Equality Act 2010.

From here: [[https://platform-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/ecb/document/2019/05/08/bb5eea87-6e2a-4fb5-bec5-c90420a73391/FAQs-for-ECB-Policy-on-Trans-People-Playing-Cricket.pdf ECB Policy on Trans People Playing Cricket -
Frequently Asked Questions]]

'Gender expression' is apparently more important than biology in the world of cricket.