Epstein is dead

[AlwaysComingHome]

Jeffrey Epstein has apparently committed suicide.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-49306032

Can’t help feeling he has escaped from justice.

I know someone with dementia who thinks Boris Johnson is the best prime minister this country will ever have.

Trouble is the coverup was a hoax incorporating satanic ritual abuse narratives and the "documentary", like so many on Discovery Channel is really fiction.

Way to smear the rape victim, e.g. Alisha Owen, who never retracted her statements about who of the Omaha bigwigs abused her and was sentenced to 9-15 years in prison for these 'wrongful allegations'. The jury acknowledged, she had been abused, but, alas, not by those upright members of society. So the obvious consequence was to convict the girl to a decade in prison over it. (Not sure about your Satanism, Alisha didn't talk Satanism, she spoke of rape. Nor does the documentary. But Satanism smears well, I guess).

Also, what type of an inept hoax is a documentary that is expected to be aired on US national television, but gets pulled, not by lawyers but without any transparent process, bought up and destroyed. And it was made by then York TV director Nick Gray and Tim Tate... they are hoaxers now?

Yeah, Tim Tate sounds totally hoaxey here, when he explains how the film was made, cleared by their lawyers and then pulled for good:
spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/tim-tate-on-the-making-of-the-franklin-scandal-documentary-conspiracy-of-silence/

I noticed Andrew has run to his mother for support ... he is going to need it in the coming weeks.

You know, hoodathunkit, I was not sure whether Epstein's Death was a fitting topic for Feminism chat, but your blind siding with 'the upright citizens of Omaha' over the girl who says they raped them, turning her into the bad guy, is really on point.

Or as Nebraska State Sen. Loran Schmit said, who headed the investigation into the credit union and turned over the information gathered about the child abuse to the FBI: “I was very disappointed with the way the FBI and law enforcement treated the victims,” Schmit says in the documentary. “They in fact turned them into the offenders, so to speak. And instead of taking the evidence that was delivered to them by the victims and interrogating the persons who the victims identified, they seemed to bear down and try to get the victims to change their story.”

But I guess Nebraska State Sen. Loran Schmit is a hoax, too. Only Wikipedia is no hoax.

Richard Kerr and the Kincora scandal. What strikes me about all of this is the MO is similar with 'VIP' paedophiles throughout the world. This is a distressing video.

Way to smear the rape victim, e.g. Alisha Owen, who never retracted her statements about who of the Omaha bigwigs abused her and was sentenced to 9-15 years in prison for these 'wrongful allegations'. The jury acknowledged, she had been abused, but, alas, not by those upright members of society. So the obvious consequence was to convict the girl to a decade in prison over it. (Not sure about your Satanism, Alisha didn't talk Satanism, she spoke of rape. Nor does the documentary. But Satanism smears well, I guess).

Also, what type of an inept hoax is a documentary that is expected to be aired on US national television, but gets pulled, not by lawyers but without any transparent process, bought up and destroyed. And it was made by then York TV director Nick Gray and Tim Tate... they are hoaxers now/

Yeah, Tim Tate sounds totally hoaxey here, when he explains how the film was made, cleared by their lawyers and then pulled for good:
spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/tim-tate-on-the-making-of-the-franklin-scandal-documentary-conspiracy-of-silence/

Are you seriously suggesting that Tim Tate, one of the most notorious and batshit insane promoters of the satanic panic is a reputable filmmaker?

Are you aware that Tim Tate authored the book "Children for the Devil: Ritual Abuse and Satanic Crime” that was published in 1991 but that was subsequently withdrawn after legal action over libellous content?

Tim Tate was co-producer of a 1989 edition of ITV’s prime-time programme The Cook Report entitled "The Devil’s Work”.

Interested readers can watch this televisual feast of deranged conspiracy theories about satanic ritual abuse here, with critical cutaways added at a later date by SAFF

Since SAFF created the edited, critical version. complete with debunking facts and exposes of the anti-abortion and homophobic agenda of the evangelical Christians interviewed in the film, many more concerning facts regarding these same dubious evangelical Christian groups promoting the satanic panic have come to light. It will be my great pleasure to educate readers about this when the time is right, which will be very soon.

For further debunking of the fantasist Tim Tate readers may read an excellent and very detailed critical analysis of his “work” in the excellent Barrister Blogger blog by Matthew Scott here:

barristerblogger.com/2015/07/05/satanic-abuse-a-reply-to-believers/

I find your opportunism in using the Epstein atrocities to resurrect debunked conspiracy theories regarding satanic ritual abuse to be odious and extremely hurtful to survivors of real abuses.

As for Alisha Owen, who served 4 1/2 years for perjury, I suspect that the jury was correct in their finding that she really was genuinely abused but that some of her allegations were untrue.

As someone who has personally met countless women who received quack therapies that lead to them having false memories of incest, rape and satanic ritual abuse I have a finely honed understanding of how real survivors of sexual abuse can be let down by deluded and / or corrupt therapists. Unfortunately these bizarre therapies are offered to this very day in NHS settings and by rape crisis centres. The harm done to falsely accused innocents and to sexual abuse survivors can only be imagined.

This is not about “smearing survivors” at all, this is about understanding that real dangerous, abusive cults exist and that some of them have created horrible, dangerous models of psychotherapy that hurt all kinds of people including rape and sexual abuse survivors.

Those of us who are real survivors of trafficking, rape and child sexual abuse and who have been offered therapy services by these quacks and charlatans and who have met extremely vulnerable people who have "recovered memories” that their parents were satanists are left not knowing what to believe in terms of survivor narratives.

That does not mean we want to “smear survivors” just that we would like to see proper evidence based support provided to survivors rathe than yoga (may be helpful providing that it is not delivered by a disciple of a dangerous yoga cult - which sadly it often is), mindfulness (see concerns re yoga), “body psychotherapy” (often linked to misogynist, sexually abusive neo-tantric cults) or other methods know to cause false memories such as hypnosis, NLP, and a host of other therapies.

It is evident to me that with claims of VIP paedophile rings and with Brexit and so many other issues, the people who claim to possess the one and only truth are the ones who know the least and the ones who try to hold onto no knowing and who appreciate the complexity of the situation usually go unheard.

@deepwatersolo

a few questions for you

what is your opinion on "satanic ritual abuse"?

Do you believe that repressed memories of sexual abuse can be "recovered" using massage and body psychotherapy?

Do you think that hypnosis is an effective method for "recovering memories" of forgotten historic sexual abuse?

What is your opinion on David Icke?

Thanks for the conspiracy of silence link, will watch when i get time.

Left or right wing is irrelevent - this is about, money and power. The Clintons are as nasty if not worse than Trump. Andrew is a creep whether he is right or left wing ive no idea.

Why is the authority of those who 'debunk' conspiracy theories higher?

Your latest post is incredibly weird. hoodathunk

I can't make head nor tail of it. It's off topic with the 'satanic abuse' angle.

Andrea Dworkin and Jeff Epstein

www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2019/08/andrea-dworkin-and-jeff-epstein.html

I agree with Dworkin's last paragraph, i believe it is possible.

There is no conspiracy here.

Like Jimmy Savile it's all done openly.

This from Wikipedia

During Savile's lifetime, sporadic allegations of child abuse were made against him dating back to 1963,

How can Wikipedia possibly make that statement re Savile. The allegations were not 'sporadic' they were widespread and generally known about.

There were many who allowed Savile to be lauded in public, including the BBC, the Monarchy and Parliamentarians and those in Government.

My opinion of David Icke is unknown unless you sign up to pay, you are not allowed to see what is being said.

A few questions to you hoodathunkit:

1. Why is a girl who said she was raped and stood by it even though it brought her a conviction for a decade or more in jail and never talked about Satanic rituals less believable to you than convict Larry King and his ilk?

1. 1. Why is a young man, Bonacci, who said she was raped and stood by it even though it threatened to bring him a conviction for a decade or more in jail and who never talked about Satanic rituals less believable to you than convict Larry King and his ilk? And that even after a jury in a civil suit ordered Larry King to pay out 1 million dollars to Bonacci less believable to you than convict Larry King and his ilk?

1. Why is ex-Nebraksa state senator John DeCamp less credible to you than convict Larry King and his ilk? (He didn't mention Satanic rituals either).

1. Why is private investigator Gary Caradori less credible to you than convict Larry King and his ilk? (Unfortunately, he and is 8 year old son died in a plane crash, days after he said he had irrefutable evidence). (He didn't mention Satanism btw).

1. Why is Nebraska State Sen. Loran Schmit less credible to you than convict Larry King and his ilk? (He didn't mention Satanism btw).

1. As for Satanism: By your logic any pedophile just has to put on some black robe, light a candle and draw a pentagram prior to his abuse of a child, and he will be safe from prosecution. (Fun fact: Bonacci reported that some of the offences took place in 'weird settings' and he opined that this was probably so that the kids would not be believed).

1. As for Icke: So only people who believe in Extraterrestrians can believe a rape victim? Is that your point?

How can Wikipedia possibly make that statement re Savile. The allegations were not 'sporadic' they were widespread and generally known about.

But it is on Wikipedia, so it must be true. ;-)

make that 'Why is a young man, Bonacci, who said he was raped...'

This is a distressing video.

It is indeed distressing placemats. Just watched it. Lower class children have no protection in our society and when they finally speak up, they are not believed, not even when they've grown up. Same as it ever was.

But apparently the video is invalidated because the director made a wrong call on another topic and was therefore discredited on everything he'd ever done.

I'm a pretty sceptical person on the whole, and inclined to accept that Epstein committed suicide (though may well have been helped by people paid to turn a blind eye)- but it's instructive, isn't it, that there hasn't been the usual chorus of "innocent until proved guilty" that we always hear in other cases where the accused has unfortunately died before trial.

The Epstein case has made me think again about many cases where I was inclined to think not enough evidence, we'll never know and instead go hmmm. And even go hmmm about cases that previously seemed batshit.

I haven't even watched Conspiracy of Silence yet.

I haven't even watched Conspiracy of Silence yet.

You should really watch it. It is pretty dry in style, not at all sensationalist. And all the more powerful for it.

And then think about how easily some ill sourced Wikipedia article that nonsensically and flippantly linked the case to the 'Satanic panic' while leaving out key information managed to discredit the documentary and with it the rape victims in the eyes of people who never saw any of it.

But apparently the video is invalidated because the director made a wrong call on another topic and was therefore discredited on everything he'd ever done.

no

The video lacks credibility because

1. It was directed by Tim Tate, a controversial figure who has built his career on making batshit insane pseudo-documentaries about non-existent VIP paedophile rings and satanic ritual abuse

1. The central alleged victim featured in the “documentary” served 4 1/2 years in jail following her conviction, by jury, of 8 counts of perjury

1. The allegations of the coverup included claims of "a cult of devil worshipers involved in the mutilation, sacrifice and cannibalism of numerous children” (what is generally called “satanic ritual abuse”) www.nytimes.com/1988/12/18/us/a-lurid-mysterious-scandal-begins-taking-shape-in-omaha.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Tim Tate is not a credible source for anything and yet people are recommending a video directed by him as reputable. You might as well promote David Icke, Alex Jones or Valerie Sinason.

I detailed and gave links providing evidence of Tate’s conspiraloonery and his promotion of SRA, but if this was not sufficient, interested readers can watch another of his other conspiracy themed films here

Cleveland: The Death of Childhood (part 1)

This film provides an illuminating perspective into Tim Tate’s agenda. The film makes outrageous claims about the appalling abuses inflicted upon completely innocent families in Cleveland whose lives were torn apart by a cabal of child sexual abuse obsessed doctors and social workers.

Claims made in the film include

1. The claim that Reflex Anal Dilatation (RAD) is a relatable indicator of child sexual abuse - this is completely untrue

1. The claim that some of the children taken from their parents had really been sexually abused. It is not only possible but highly likely, given the vast numbers of children taken from their families (between 121 - 125 depending upon the source literature), that some had in fact been abused. However to claim that this means that the cabal of doctors and social workers were acting properly and professionally is outrageous and disingenuous.

1. The claim that only the parents were listened to and not the children. This is a lie and child victims of this insane witch hunt have, as adults, described their pleas to stay with their parents ignored by doctors and social workers. Victim accounts via this link www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-438208/The-women-went-ordeal-belief.html

There are other claims also, however I do not have all day to post about this. Interested readers can watch the video and make up their own minds.

The film features a person of interest in terms of the promotion of the satanic panic in the UK; the notorious so called “child abuse consultant” Sue Richardson (first appears in the film at 5.35) who was central to the Cleveland Scandal.

What is most evident from even a cursory watching of Cleveland: The Death of Childhood is that, for Tim Tate and his fellow conspiratards, their delusions are unshakable and fixed and remain so in the face of actual victim testimony and mountains of evidence from real professionals and experts.

Whether Tate et al are good people suffering from a collective delusion / hysteria or whether they are co-conspirators in something more sinister is something I can only wonder about.

Further reading

LaFontaine, J. S. (1998). Speak of the Devil: allegations of satanic abuse in Britain. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-62934-9. Page 18 of the report states that the Cleveland child abuse scandal featured allegations of satanic ritual abuse

I cannot comment on the reliability of the below author author, however many of the issues she raises validate my own significant personal experience of coverups and real paedophile rings being hidden under a layer of false accusations of imaginary paedophile rings. For this reason I would recommend the following blog post as a springboard for further research:

Behind The Facade – Service Shenanigans Thirty Years of the Mental Health Services – Mostly in North Wales

tag: Sue Richardson

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kWDysvcG-_8J:www.drsallybaker.com/tag/sue-richardson/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Here is a video of an interview with Tate in which he promotes debunked conspiracy theories about Leon Brittan and a VIP paedophile ring at the Elm Guest House.

My thoughts re the alleged Franklin child prostitution ring hoax;

It may be that there was a coverup of a child prostitution scandal involving satanic ritual abuse.

I think it highly unlikely but I try to keep an open mind about things as I have significant 1st hand experience of coverups and of child sexual abuse and sex trafficking

It may be that the jury was wrong and that there was a miscarriage of justice when Alisha Owen was convicted of 8 counts of perjury. I understand that miscarriages of justice happen very frequently for all kinds of reasons (modern forensic science using DNA has proved this many times).

However if I am to be persuaded that a coverup took place and that a jury was wrong about Alisha Owen I will require some convincing evidence from reputable sources, not a pseudo-documentary made by a discredited conspiracy theorist.

HTH

2. The central alleged victim featured in the “documentary” served 4 1/2 years in jail following her conviction, by jury, of 8 counts of perjury

You forget that the other victim, Bonacci, who substantiated Alicia's claims won a lawsuit against Larry King for the abuse and was awarded 1 million dollars.

You also forget that Peter Citron, (as mentioned in conspiracy of silence) who was named by Bonacci, was convicted for 3-8 years in prison for sexual assault. He fondled boys.

You also forget that Alan Baer was also convicted.

The documentary 'Conspiracy of Silence' names Baer and Citron and not others precisely because they had already been convicted at that point.

You also forget that Alisha Jones never retracted, despite the threat and then actual punishment of a pretty much unprecedented conviction for 9-27 years (I looked it up again) for 'lying' about who abused her.

If you cannot see how you are led down the garden path here, hoodatthunkit, by whoever injected 'Satanism' or 'Aliens' into the conversation about the use of sex trafficked children in order to get leverage over influential people, so that it is now all the same thing in your head, there is nothing else to say.

@deepwatersolo

If you are claiming that allegations of SRA have been added to a real conspiracy in order to make it look like a hoax, now that is something I can understand as I know of other examples where that has occurred.

I am extremely pushed for time, but if you can provide reputable sources (i.e. not Time Tate) I would be very pleased to check them out when I have time

Oh god I went down such a deep rabbit hole last night via a link to twitter. Wish I hadn`t.

It's really horrifying isn't it justasking111 ? Since a young age I've became quite aware of creepers (being polite with that term) fortunately I've been lucky and managed to avoid being abused myself. So many, too many children are not so lucky. I don't know how far the rabbit hole you went, but there are so, so, many stories that a lot of similarities. Many of those can be traced backed to pre-internet. There is a pattern and once seen, it cannot be unseen. What I can't help finding curious is that there are numerous incindents involving the Catholic Church, but yet somehow the Franklin Credit Union/BoysTown is dismissed. Why would that be? Perhaps because it reaches further afield into politics and business? Mumsnet taught me about regulatory capture, that phrase resonates. The TRA's have nothing on the pedophiles, absolutely nothing. I could share, with careful wording, a story about that regarding police in my state. I've viewed Conspiracy of Silence a few times over the past decade (not recently), but I can't recall references to Satanic Panic. The only possible link would be (tbh I can't recall if in the documentary or further research) was Paul Bonnacci referencing a potential snuff film in IIRC a Bohemian Grove type setting.

OP my apologies because the subject of Satanic Panic has been discussed in previous posts, I'm possibly derailing here, but I would like to comment about it. Any disinterested users feel free to skip the following.

So onto Satanic Panic. I was in my teens during this time.. I can remember media sensationalism (absolute talk show fodder). My own mum was pretty relaxed but her religious friends were painful. As a smartarse teen I had a lot of fun freaking them out. As a teen it was just rebellion, heavy metal, oujia boards, trying to hear "back masking" on records or tapes.

With time I look back at that period in general and yes it was in very many respects a moral panic. But, I do wonder, now with the internet we have became more aware of how certain "people" with vested interests will go to great lengths to discredit others that may be a threat to their status quo. In reality victims of sexual assault face great difficulty just to manage to get their cases heard in a court of law, not to mention the insidious accusations and invasion of privacy they face.

Of course there will always be the bandwagon jumpers. That's a given, people do some seriously weird stuff in search of fame /attention (Jessica Yaniv?). But if you were to put your preconceived notions behind and think about this in a different way. If you were to be in a group of people that were regularly sexually abusing children/young people, the idea of a "satanic ritual" is debunked, essentially so ridiculous, who would believe a victim that came forward telling that kind of story? A traumatised victim, possibly drugged, throw on a robe, light a few candles, chant some mumbo jumbo - nobody will believe them. Which brings me to the topic of belief. Do I think people can conjure satan or demons, of course not, what a load of bullshit. It's my understanding that your average satanists don't believe it either. But what I believe or what you believe doesn't matter. What if they believe? That is my point. There are many people with strange beliefs, Demonic Possession (across different cultures and religions), The Rapture, The Royals are really Intergalactic Lizards (this one is my all time favourite and always makes me have stomach cramps from laughter).
I could (in my worst nightmares) imagine that active paedophiles could in many ways share similarities with other violent offenders in that they will reach a point where their activities become mundane and they require an additional thrill (fuck I feel ill just typing that 🤢). In a group all it would take is a charismatic leader (psychotic sadist usually) think how cults usually operate.

In conclusion, I sadly, do think it's not beyond the realm of possibility that there are people who would do this. The above are just some random theories why. But truly I don't think I'm capable of comprehending the mindset of such wretched excuses for humans.

My rabbit hole last night was about Ghislaine and how she is trying to cover her ass and literally her life. A lot of people owe favours which she is calling in. I really wonder if we will ever see her again also others who may be disposable.

Our Italian friend shrugs and says not much different from the italian way of doing business in the old days.