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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

999 replies

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 06/08/2019 18:25

Thread 2

Previous thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3656142-Shocking-behaviour-towards-lesbians-at-Leeds-pride-today

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18
Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 05:57

The stories about lesbians being forced to smile and nod while people force them to find transwoman attractive are interesting as the lesbians I know, seem to think this is complete propaganda and not the case IRL at all.

Maybe they should get better friends? I don’t know anyone who associates with people who tell them who to sleep with.

Infant, most lesbians I know would say trying to bring LGBT back 50 years and associate it with pedophilia is far more damaging.

Seriously, fuck everyone who thinks the right side of history involves shouting abuse at lesbians - actual, real, same-sex oriented natal females who insist on maintaining their own sexual boundaries.

I think this is the biggest bullshit, are lesbians untouchable and unquestionable because they like vagina? Change the words to ‘transwoman’ and ‘gender dysphoric’ who ‘stand their ground to protestors’ and you’ll see why things like this are mostly full of shit.

The way some of you speak of lesbians like a different species I also find very strange and telling that I highly doubt you actually even know any lesbians.

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 06:01

An excellent article, imo, written by Lara Adams Miller:

medium.com/@LaraAdamsMiller/speaking-truth-to-power-in-the-era-of-trans-rights-activism-16a557a7c1cf

Datun · 07/08/2019 06:29

It's an interesting journey isn't it jacky. Most people start a little further forward. She was entrenched in the ideology. Must have been a painful enlightenment. Good for her.

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 06:32

Morning Datun! Yes .. I feel for her ... this sentence struck me:

"In one awful moment, I realized that this wasn’t about the liberation of a sexual minority or about the peace and safety of societal misfits — it was men finding another way to subjugate and abuse women, by erasing them."

Whatthingsexactly · 07/08/2019 06:51

Troh Debating? Let me know when you start doing that - that would be great because your 'evidence' earlier was a 4chan link, which is also pretty telling about you as a person.

It wasn’t a 4chan link, it was a mediamatters link, with content about the disinformation campaigns behind fake news originating from 4chan.

Here it is again - www.mediamatters.org/4chan/how-hoax-lgbtq-community-embracing-pedophiles-went-viral

It’s really interesting, and not a 4chan link at all. Though there have been plenty of those on this board, and 8chan, posted by GC regulars as evidence in the cause.

Datun · 07/08/2019 06:58

"In one awful moment, I realized that this wasn’t about the liberation of a sexual minority or about the peace and safety of societal misfits — it was men finding another way to subjugate and abuse women, by erasing them."

Exactly. It's like a light switch. Once you flick it, all the context, the doubts, the dichotomy rush at you at breakneck speed.

The upside is that afterwards everything makes sense. Absolutely everything.

Bespin · 07/08/2019 07:05

Whatthingsexactly

Thank you for that I have said it was not a 4chan post but, its better to beleive the lies than it is to actually check for yourself on here. it dispelled the link between lgbt and pedophilia. Like the one people on here are trying to make, like tabloids did in the 80s a lot of people on here have issues with the whole of the Lgbt community but just don't want to come out and say it as they know that they will just look like bigots.

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 07:09

a lot of people on here have issues with the whole of the Lgbt community but just don't want to come out and say it as they know that they will just look like bigots.

It's men's behaviours we have issues with.

NewarkShark · 07/08/2019 07:11

earlywalker

With reference to your earlier question, why do you say the Equality Act doesn’t cater for trans women?

Alwaysgrey · 07/08/2019 07:12

@JackyHolyoake thanks for posting that article. It really sums things up.

Bespin · 07/08/2019 07:14

JackyHolyoake

jolly good so the Lgbt community is not harbouring pedophilia would you not agree?

grenkyll · 07/08/2019 07:20

@Trohmaniac @bespin it wasn't a 4chan link. It was a link to an article about how 4chan is where the idea that pride allowed MAP etc had been invented, as part of a far right effort to discredit the LGBT community. The age old homophobic equivalence between homosexuality and paedophilia. You can only have thought bespin posted a 4chan link if you hadn't opened it.

Bespin · 07/08/2019 07:23

thanks grenkyll

the thread will not quietly drop the link with pedophilia and move on to something completely different. lol

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/08/2019 07:24

Wow that article is amazing

2BthatUnnoticed · 07/08/2019 07:31

TW: lots of fucks given.

I suspect Janes knows her daughter and I know my sister and sister in law Confused

No one regards lesbians as “untouchable or unquestionable” (wtf). Rather:

  1. Lesbians have a right to be openly homoSEXual. Yes, even if their sexuality might make others feel excluded.
  1. If women are expected to downplay their own sexuality to help others feel validated - that is patriarchal bullshit.
  1. This in no way means lesbians dislike trans people or think they are not valid (didn’t “look at all you beautiful transpeople” make that clear?).
  1. For 13 lesbians to be surrounded by 120+ people yelling NO TERFS AT PRIDE is patriarchal fucking bullshit.
  1. Some lesbians feel fine with the status quo. They had a right to express that, and that right was respected (as it should be).
  1. Other lesbians are fucking miserable. They had a right to express that. That right was not respected.
  1. I’m Catholic. As a child I remember people trying to speak up - they were silenced and excluded. They were right.
  1. I believe the young, detrans women who are trying to speak out. I believe Stonewall, like the Vatican, is complicit in silencing and excluding them.
Bespin · 07/08/2019 07:39

Some lesbians feel fine with the status quo. They had a right to express that, and that right was respected (as it should be).

Thank you would you like to tell the rest of this thread that these woman are still lesbians as people here don't seem to think so.

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/08/2019 07:40

Hang on a minute, this is nothing to do with "lgbt embracing paedophilia," this is about, as has been repeatedly pointed out on this board, that where boundaries start to be erased in terms of what's seen as part of a movement or perfectly acceptable for children, that is is where loop holes begin to occur, boundaries are blurred, advantages are taken and predatory people hide in plain sight.

The more children and yp are taught something is the norm, eg porn or how women are treated in porn, the more predators can take advantage of them.

It's subtle and it's nuanced and if it's not defined it slips under the net.

There's a particular piece of organisational safeguarding training that I can't remember the name of that's especially pertinent in this area.

It also covers how people in organisations can be manipulative through charismatic confidence, creating certain cultures within the organisation or work place that then means people become immune to subtle harms or loose sight of what is or isn't appropriate. Anything from office banter to how to interact with a child.

That's what's going on here. On this thread and at least 3 before it this week with certain posters who are distracting everyone from the main points behind this.

So in the nicest possible way, fuck off.

2BthatUnnoticed · 07/08/2019 07:40

(To be clear, the detrans women are not referring to abuse but to other things. But the “no t*rfs at Pride” is part of the silencing, and stonewall condones it).

JackyHolyoake · 07/08/2019 07:44

It also covers how people in organisations can be manipulative through charismatic confidence, creating certain cultures within the organisation or work place that then means people become immune to subtle harms or loose sight of what is or isn't appropriate. Anything from office banter to how to interact with a child.

aka Grooming

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/08/2019 07:45

*Is it just me or does Roses never answer questions? Or maybe I’ve missed it.

Roses have you ever seen anything at any Pride, or mentioned in the previous thread, which gave you pause re child safeguarding? If so, can you say what?*

Yes funny dat, innit, Many questions get avoided.

Fuck this bullshit. Covering up and hiding things. Avoiding the real reasons the GC movement call this shit out. Safeguarding and the rights of women, girls and all children.

SophoclesTheFox · 07/08/2019 07:45

Great posts charlieparley, thank you for the analysis.

It’s utterly absurd that feminists are now being accused of trying to link paedophilia with being gay. Absurd. And the suggestion that we get our ideas from 4chan - for fucks sake! That bastion of feminist thought? Don't be daft. You’re only betraying your utter lack of understanding of what feminism is and does.

I feel like I’m back in the eighties when people tell me my objection to porn and prostitution comes from listening to people on the Christian right. Daft then, daft now.

2BthatUnnoticed · 07/08/2019 07:45

Bespin do you agree with the other 7 paras too?

VolcanionSteamArtillery · 07/08/2019 07:46

For goodness sake.

Gay pride is essentially a festival about tolerance for your sexual preferences. If you go and protest in a way that can be interpreted as intolerant, why wouldnt you be protested at back? I just dont get why the reaction should be a surprise.

I cant follow the poor silenced bullied women narrative when these women are able and did indeed protest. If you dont want to be protested against back dont protest at pride.

The choice of protest location is deliberate to generate response and publicity. At least own it. Playing dumb does nothing but reinforce negative female stereotypes. If your going to make a statement make a statement.

As to safeguarding issues if you are worried about your kids dont take them to pride. If you want to take them great but personally ive never had the expectation a festival that is a celebration of who you have sex or in in a relationship with is going to be or even should have to be child friendly.

It would surprise me at all if Gay pride is really just male pride with women tacked on. Women all too often have fought to be included in Male structures. Like this i worry why we bother. If pride doesnt represent you why do you still go? Put that effort into creating our own female centric structures that work for you, its what disabled individuals and their carers have been doing for years (and that really is an oppressed group). That's the only way to enact real political change or at least find mutual support. If pride starts losing support (and lets face it we really mean revenue) in favour of your own festival institutional support for Pride will slip away.

But i suspect the widespread silenced support just isnt there, which is why there is the necessity to protest in such a way that a small number of voices have a disproportionate impact. Being shocked by a backlash is just disingenuous

grenkyll · 07/08/2019 07:48

Thanks for the 'fuck off' neurotrash. Nice. I just wanted to show that all the comments that said Bespin had linked to a 4chan article and that this 'said a lot a about' the poster, was misinformed, and likely to mislead others. I don't think it's cool to misinform, and then if that inaccuracy is pointed out by someone, to tell that person to fuck off.