Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

[MrsSnippyPants]

twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1158020993006411779?s=20

Haha I knew you wouldn't disappoint Rose! Have you got the thread to 1000 yet? Keep going you'll get there

Whatever, yeah this no doubt makes me sound Kevin The Teenager but whatevs lol

Also, I've noticed trolls on this board do something I will call 'thread filibustering' (like they do in parliament, when they don't want a bill to get passed).They target certain topics and post literally tonnes of random petty replies until eventually the thread reaches 1000 and by the end is always completely nonsensical

This!

Also, I've noticed trolls on this board do something I will call 'thread filibustering' (like they do in parliament, when they don't want a bill to get passed).They target certain topics and post literally tonnes of random petty replies until eventually the thread reaches 1000 and by the end is always completely nonsensical

This!

Sorry for duplicate responses

Possibly Wednesday.

Mumsnet's well glitchy tonight isn't it?

It is indeed!

Mumsnet's well glitchy tonight isn't it?

Really is, been like it all day for me.
Apparently something to do with the servers.
Been having error not found messages when trying to log in then suddenly coming back online.

For those who didn't manage to watch the from LeedsResisters themselves, here is my description:

1. The protesters who wished to assert that lesbians are female homosexuals inform the police prior to beginning their protest that there are 13 of them in total, that they have brought three banners and that at previous prides they had been attacked and spat on for asserting lesbian boundaries. They want a peaceful protest but think it is best not to join the march but simply stay in that place (I couldn't make out all that was said, but I think this is the gist of it).

1. They state they are lesbians.

1. FYI, the group who stopped to shout at them was TransPride and apparently consisted of approximately 120 people, although in the video it looks like no more than 30 to 50 people at any one time, most of them men who try crowd them and block their banners.

1. They move in on the lesbian protesters BEFORE they had even started their protest. At this point their banners were still packed away, their megaphone was silent. However, one of the women wore a black T-shirt stating lesbian - female homosexual, another a purple t-shirt saying detrans lesbian and it is possible that members of TransPride recognised some of these women and/or took offence to their t-shirts.

1. Members of TransPride almost immediately shout slogans about trans rights being attacked at them

"When trans rights are attacked, what do we do? Fight back!"

one of them sings

"I'd rather be a pervert than a TERF"

The councillor bloke lookalike laughs a creepy fake laugh. Two other men call the women bigots, "homosexual bigots" and say that it is a disgrace that they are here.

1. Members of TransPride then try to persuade the police (different officers from before) that these lesbians are a hate group, tell them they are bigots and TERFs.

1. One of the lesbian protesters calmly informs the police that they are not a hate group but lesbians at pride, "female homosexuals". These officers are either bemused or carefully neutral, it's hard to tell, but as the protesters are literally just standing in their little spot DOING NOTHING AT THIS POINT and TransPride is momentarily not shouting, the police do not intervene.

I'd say that the earlier chat with the police officers has proven helpful as the protesters had asked them to make their colleagues aware of what they were doing, too, and by doing so had essentially run it by the police (as it were) who had clearly and rightly decided not to intervene unless things got violent.

1. More singing of "I would rather be a pervert than a TERF"

1. The lesbians start their protest. Their three banners read:

Lesbian = female homosexual
Lesbian not Queer
Transgender ideology harms lesbians (female homosexuals)

The first two are quite big. The latter is hard to read, the writing is very small. It is held up by the young woman wearing a t-shirt that says "detrans lesbian".

10. They get out the megaphone and state:

"Lesbian homosexuals are not men"
"Lesbian rights are human rights"

(chanting this one several times, it sounds like some of the bystanders have joined in).

11. TransPride members respond with

"trans rights are human rights"

and one young lesbian shouts

Transwomen do not erase me

12. The woman with the megaphone repeats:

"Lesbian rights are human rights"

TransPride members boo at this and shout "bigots". Some TransPride members continue to boo while others chant

"Support trans lesbians"

13. Megaphone women says

"Lesbians aren't queer"

Her wee troupe take this up. She moves on to

"Lesbians, female homosexuals. Lesbians don't have penises.

14. In the background, one of her friends can be heard explaining that they do not oppose trans rights and Megaphone Woman shouts

"Look at all you beautiful trans people, we love you"

to the people in front of her (or to the floats going by?). Her fellow protesters join in with similar sentiments.

14. The TransPride crowd responds with

"Trans rights matter" and
"Trans lives matter"

15. Megaphone Woman again chants

"Lesbians not queer"

and then the protesters move on to

"We are homoSEXUALS. We are homoSEXUALS."

16. TransPride members, who clearly have decided to block the women in permanently respond with

"When trans rights are under attack, what do we do? Fight back"

17. At this point, it feels like TransPride members get slightly more aggressive. They start chanting

"Bigoted homosexuals"

at the women and crowd them, moving in with their banners, trying to block the lesbian banners. There are actually children here and bystanders just peacefully watching the parade. These spectators are being crowded even more than the lesbian protesters (who stand a little elevated over the crowd and partially behind a barrier), but the TransPride members don't take any notice.

18. It's now hard to hear Megaphone Woman, but she's back at

"Lesbian not queer" after something much longer I can't hear properly but that sounds like something to do with the lesbian who started the Stonewall riots?

19. The crowd is now aggressively booing them and shouting and screaming over them, chanting more stuff about trans rights being under attack.

20. A fetish float with lots of weird flags goes past, Megaphone Woman boos and chants some thing like "these are not ??? of Pride" and "Out of Pride! Out of Pride!"

The TransPride group responds with "Stay in Pride. Stay in Pride"

21. The video gets a bit confusing and frankly bonkers now.

Megaphone Woman is back to talking about the lesbian who started the Stonewall riots, there is more shouting of "bigot", some TransPride members are quoting a Taylor Swift song telling the lesbians they are too loud and need to be quiet (which betrays a staggering lack of self-awareness on their part as one can barely hear Megaphone Woman over their noise, let alone the rest of her friends).

22. Then, bizarrely, the TransPride members start shouting "Fat shaming bigot" at the lesbians (this is after one of the protesters who uses a mobility scooter moves through or past the crowd). Then, in an even more bizarre move the TransPride crowd chants "I would rather be a fatso than a TERF". As if that wasn't fat-shaming...

23. Megaphone woman now shouts

"Lesbians don't have penises. Women have vaginas. Wake up. Wake up Wake up"

24. The TransPride crowd had gotten some young women to chant along with them earlier, now one of them complains to the police about the lesbian protesters. She looks very earnest and concerned that a lesbian protest has been allowed at Pride.

25. At this point in the video you see for the first time just how surrounded they are. TransPride members are standing beside, behind and in front of them. Breathing down their necks. Some serious violations of personal space going on here, at times some of the TransPride members are so close to them, they are inside the protesters intimate space zone. I have no idea how the women put up with that.

26. Lots of "No TERFs at Pride" and similar slogans now. Then both sides are talking to the police. The lesbian who had earlier established a rapport with the police points out to them that the TransPride crowd is getting far too close now, highlighting it seems that they hadn't moved from their spot, had remained peaceful and had not crowded anyone. The police at this point are standing squarely beside the lesbians, in what looks very much like a deterrent signal to those crowding them.

27. One young woman who is asked by the officer to move away can be heard complaining to the police that the lesbians are telling her she is not a man? At this point, there had been no mention of individuals or indeed of the issue of females who identify as trans from Megaphone Woman and this individual clearly looks and sound like a woman, so this is again weird.

28. So, throughout it's about 30 to 50 people crowding the lesbians, from the looks of it many more are male than female. At some point a chant of "L with the T" is started. A male voice dominates, there seems to be the voice of the female who has been saying that transwomen don't erase her, a couple others, but no one else joins in. Maybe their friends were bored at this point. And that's pretty much it.

29. You can tell from the video that the claim that a thousand people shouted the protesters down is completely false. The main parade goes by at quite some distance, the immediate space in front of the protesters is filled by TransPride people but beyond that are even more people watching the float going by. The latter are unlikely to hear much of what is going on behind them as the music from the floats is very loud.

30. However, there are quite a few spectators closer by who are quietly observing what is going on, mostly women from the few glances we get on the video and it is not at all clear that they support the TransPride crowd. They are definitely keeping their distance, but I would expect the spectacle of Megaphone Woman shouting that women have vaginas and lesbians don't have penises and mostly men booing and shouting at her and her friends in response to have left them more than a little curious.

Great summary - thank you. Highlights the absurdity, but also the seriousness. Solidarity to those brave women. I know many lesbians have (understandably) dis-engaged from the Pride scene but I applaud those who go.

The woman holding the “transactivism erases lesbians” sign, I believe spent a few years as a TM. She is (now) a lesbian but grew up within transactivism and didn’t realise lesbianism (the homo type) was possible. She’s talking about her life. Others (the “cis lesbians”) have a different experience, but that is hers.

She’s allowed to talk about it. Peacefully expressing your own truth does not amount to an attack. Shame on those who yelled at and intimidated a small no. of peaceful protesters.

Excellent summary thank you.

Lesbians must define themselves. This is NOT transphobic.

As the detransed woman, a lesbian, who was at the event said, I realised I was not attracted to trans women. (In her interview with GNC centric)

Boundaries.

The only gaslighters here are those saying that she's transphobic for saying this. That she couldn't make this definition of herself AT PRIDE. There are mixtures of gaslighting and straw men arguments here.

The problem is roses and early, i'm genuinely never clear exactly what you are saying. And I'm not sure you are sometimes.

I could be wrong but my impression from their comments was “those lesbians were asking for it and it wasn’t that bad anyway. And what do they expect? If women share their own lived reality in a way that might hurt others’ feelings, of course loud (mostly) males will surround and yell at them!”

Thank for the summary. I have been unable to access the video. But will be able to when I get back to work and use my laptop to view it.

I love Lesbian not queer, its like when young people told us we could not be M2F and other such terms and they didn't identify as such we just felt old and out of touch. Like someone had come along and told us we were doing it all wrong.

it's hard when young people come along and redefine what it is to be gay, when for years being gay had been the way you were. But we all forget that when we came along there were people telling us this is how you are gay and back then we mostly listened because there was no one else to tell us. These young people have grown up with the Internet and they don't need to listen to older gay people to find out what it is, they think they don't need us. I guess it makes us all feel a bit irrelevant because they are just getting on with it and yes some of them think that they know it all and there is nothing we can teach them, but such is youth.

when I see lesbian not queer it feels a lot like that to me, it's not trans people who are erasing these "lesbians" but time. Like you don't here people identify as "tranny" any more, not young people and when I was young that's what people used. But just because someone doesn't use the word doesn't mean it stops being a thing.

There’s something I’ve been wondering.

So many people are irate at the lesbians who are openly protesting against penis. That seems to be a recent phenomenon and there’s an implication they deserve all they get as they’re “looking for trouble”.

But am I correct in thinking that long before these lesbians began their protests, trans groups at Pride and elsewhere were holding anti-terf banners and shouting anti-terf slogans?

Thank you for summarising. It really speaks for itself, doesn’t it?

‘Homosexual bigots’.

Wtf?

What came to my mind watching that was ‘two minutes hate’. It is abject homophobia caught on film.

I think I’ve been very clear.

The woman had an absolute right to protest, the people at pride also had a right to protest back.

Both sets of people have a right to express free speech. There was no psychical violence or threat of such (as far as I’m aware) on either side.

Imo If you go to something like pride, you are very aware there’s a large trans population too, so signs such as ‘transgender ideology harms lesbians’ and shouting ‘woman don’t have penis’ through megaphones is hardly likely to go unnoticed.

Saying that these woman were just lesbians defining what they are, who were so harshly attacked and treated is a bit manipulative. They gave it, they got it back - that’s life.

But people here seem to think free speech and right to protest can only be extended to those they agree with. Otherwise it’s ‘shocking behaviour’

Bespin - Not sure what point you are trying to make. There will always be lesbians, always have been, always will be. This fashion is detrimental to lesbians and will eventually be seen as such. I just hope that not too many young lesbians are harmed by being told that they should become 'men' before it is all over.

Imo If you go to something like pride, you are very aware there’s a large trans population too, so signs such as ‘transgender ideology harms lesbians’ and shouting ‘woman don’t have penis’ through megaphones is hardly likely to go unnoticed.

Saying that these woman were just lesbians defining what they are, who were so harshly attacked and treated is a bit manipulative. They gave it, they got it back - that’s life.

But people here seem to think free speech and right to protest can only be extended to those they agree with. Otherwise it’s ‘shocking behaviour’

How is it manipulative for the lesbians to speak facts while the others are speaking fiction?

The problem is roses and early, i'm genuinely never clear exactly what you are saying. And I'm not sure you are sometimes.

I thought they'd been quite clear - women not doing what men want are "asking for it"

That they support men shouting "Id rather be a pervert than a t*rf" is very telling. The trans community might want to think about the impression that gives of their community and if it is the desired impression. Is JY a poster 'boy'?

No the women did not deal with any perverts present (not sure how they coukd have when surrounded) but Trans Pride actually shouted their support of them.

Ok thanks early. I see your point now.

There's a difference between protesting and intimidation though.

Unfortunately it sounds like "they were asking for it?"

Anyway, genuine "rainbow love" would reply "we respect your rights to define your boundaries. Peace and love"

Imo If you go to something like pride, you are very aware there’s a large trans population too, so signs such as ‘transgender ideology harms lesbians’ and shouting ‘woman don’t have penis’ through megaphones is hardly likely to go unnoticed.

Or the other side is that if you are going to something like pride where there are large populations of lesbians, you should totally expose them to use it as an opportunity to redefine their boundaries, especially when those boundaries are currently trying to be torn down

Or you should accept that just because you think you are a woman, it doesnt mean you get to redefine what lesbian is and that lesbians will use an event such as pride to remind people of what the word lesbuan means and the impact trans rights is having on them.

Why do your group of lesbians have to remember that trans people will be at pride, so probably shouldnt protest. Why is not the trans population should understand that lesbians will be there who are concerned.

Also, bloody horrified that pride has a fetish float. Can someone explain to me why it has a place there and why I keep seeing on local TV that it was a family event? How can it be woth a fetish float?

I thought they'd been quite clear - women not doing what men want are "asking for it"

Yep. Entirely, absolutely, utterly, repetitively clear.

I’m not calling the protestors manipulative.

I’m calling the people here who are pushing the narrative that these poor defenceless woman were just minding their own business with a banner defining lesbians when they were nastily attacked, manipulative.