Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

[MrsSnippyPants]

twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1158020993006411779?s=20

So-called 'misgendering' is not even a so-called "hate incident" since the term 'misgendering' has no meaning in any UK statute.

Of course it isn't, otherwise every time my long-haired son was called miss, he could call the police.

Or every single time someone's baby was called he because they're not wearing pink, we can call the police.

Or, do trans people think it only applies to trans people???

And, beyond the fact that the term 'misgendering' has no legal meaning in any UK statute, to attempt to impose 'misgendering' as being illegal would be a breach of human rights law to compel the speech of anyone.

No I am not. The women were shouted at because they were making the definition of lesbian clear. How is it in the spirit of pride to shout at lesbians for being lesbians, by the actual legal definition of lesbian.

But that wasn’t entirely true was it?

Yes. It was entirely true. Because that's exactly what happened. HTH

Honestly, the linguistic gymnastics required to try and make same-sex attraction anti-trans, is astonishing.

The message ‘transgender ideology harms lesbians (female homosexual)’ is not just saying ‘I love woman and not penis is it?

Weather you agree or disagree with the above statement, you are clutching at straws to say that is just saying ‘the definition of a lesbian’

But of course you know this. You’re just trying to re write what happened to suit your agenda.

If you go to an event with a huge trans population with anti-trans messages, you know it’s unlikely To go down well.

If you go to an event with a huge (in fact dominant) homosexual population with anti homosexuality and anti woman messages, that's not likely to go down well either, but you don't seem to be blaming the carriers of those messages the same way you do the women?

So what you're saying, via these double standards, is the same thing you've shared repeatedly: an opinion that people born male matter and people born female don't and deserve punishment when they get in the males' way.

Eleventy millionth verse, same as the first.

I get your opinion. As a woman, my opinion is no fucking way am I going along with that, because it's unjust, morally wrong and FUBAR and the 12th century isn't coming back.

Lesbians have been exclusively same-sex attracted, out and proud since forever, EarlyWalker.

If transactivists are object to that very fact, then hell yeah it's harmful. What don't you get about that ??

If transactivists just shut up about it, then there's no harm.

But of course you know this. You’re just trying to re write what happened to suit your agenda.

There would be no agenda, if male born individuals stopped objecting to females being same-sex attracted.

And personally I don’t care much about dictionary definitions and find the mumsnet stance on it incredibly inconsistent.

FWR: definition of a woman is AHF so trans woman cannot call them selves woman.
Also FWR: I will not call transwoman, transwoman, despite that being the correct dictionary definition because I don’t want too.

The definition of marriage was ‘man and woman’ until recently. Things change as society does. Words are (wo)man-Made.

I don’t think TW calling themselves lesbians harms lesbians, I think assholes saying lesbians should be forced to sleep with them does. I don’t think TWAW, I think they are just men either, I respect them as a TW.

I don’t think misgendering is a hate crime, my son gets called ‘she’ all the time too. I think delivery is everything. If your words intend to hurt, they shouldn’t be said.

Also FWR: I will not call transwoman, transwoman, despite that being the correct dictionary definition because I don’t want too.

Yeah, no. I will call transwoman, transwoman. I recognise that. I won't call them woman because they're not. I'm a woman. I was born female. I will also be female. That can never change.

FWR tends to be 'I will not call transwoman woman' because we understand basic GCSE Biology.

If transactivists just shut up about it, then there's no harm.

Yep. Let homosexual women be homosexual women in peace, and let trans people be trans without forcing a hostile take over bid, colonisation and legal subjugation of women, girls and child safeguarding, and I'll put the kettle on, I'm done. You know, live and let live.

GC women didn't start this. They're being harangued for resisting the harm. Resisting. Daring to stand up and say no. That's all.

As I said. Eleventy millionth verse, same as the fucking first.

I'll just ask again @Earlywalker about why Lesbian =Adult Homosexual Female is anti trans.
I've asked so many times, I'm almost embarrassed about how many times I've asked but you won't answer. Trans ideology does harm Females and you know this but you either can't or won't answer why is the definition of a Lesbian anti trans. Lesbian women don't want to have sex with men, it's fucking obvious in the name Lesbian. They don't do dick and that's their right to refuse so why the fuck is it transphobic for them to say they don't and NEVER will embrace dick.

I don’t think misgendering is a hate crime, my son gets called ‘she’ all the time too. I think delivery is everything. If your words intend to hurt, they shouldn’t be said

Not the point of the comment. As, of course, you know. Hurt feels isn't a crime. Nor is misgendering.

I don’t think TW calling themselves lesbians harms lesbians,

UK law says otherwise though. Lesbians are a distinct category of females in UK law.

[And, by the way. the terms "transwoman / transwomen" have no meaning in any UK statute. Only the term "transsexual" has any legal reference.]

Trohmaniac did you miss the 2,000 odd threads here filled with posters they will not use the word Transwoman and want to be allowed to use TIM?

I didn’t say AHF/H is anti trans alone. Holding up signs at pride saying ‘trans ideology harms lesbians’ is obviously going to get trans people’s backs up though as it’s firstly calling their identity an ideology and secondly it’s ‘othering’ them as abusers of lesbians.

If someone went to a woman’s march for example and held up a sign saying ‘feminist ideology harms transwoman’ would it get your back up?

I haven’t said I agree nor disagree with the signs and message but I’m saying to openly do something like that at pride with a large number of trans attendees is obviously going to get attention. Which is the point of a protest, is it not?

Stand up, I’ve never said they shouldn’t protest! I’ve said if you enter into a protest and express your right to free speech, why cry victim when others express their disagreement too?

jacky the dictionary definition of a transwoman is a male to female transsexual.

Are you worried that if TW call themselves lesbian that lesbians won’t be protected any more? Is there any basis at all for that? Or are you worried that they will get protection too and you don’t think they deserve that?

Trohmaniac did you miss the 2,000 odd threads here filled with posters they will not use the word Transwoman and want to be allowed to use TIM?

No, did you miss the part where I said FWR won't call transwomen 'women'? And I answered for myself (there's that thinking for myself that you think we're incapable of) with what I will call them.

If someone went to a woman’s march for example and held up a sign saying ‘feminist ideology harms transwoman’ [sic]would it get your back up?

No, it wouldn't because the terms "transwoman / transwomen" have no legal meaning whereas the term "lesbian" is defined as a fact in UK law.

We all know that the terms "transwoman / transwomen" are fictions as far as UK law is concerned.

I avoid the word TW: a position I've reached by seeing using the words actively enables and supports the damage to women the ideology involves. Forced to discourtesy by aggressive behaviour, I AM going to say flat out, men cannot become women, and transwomen are transwomen, a wholly different thing. They cannot become women any more than women can become transwomen. I avoid using language that supports this illusion that has been pushed so far by male born people that it has done so much harm to women.

Not apologetic for defending women against harm. Even if those causing the harm don't like it.

And it is ideology, it isn't the identity that is the issue. Identify how you like. Live how you like. It's the ideology which redefines women, what women may do, what women may say, who women may sleep with, whether women may have sexual identities that preclude male access to their bodies and wholly fucked up stuff like that.

The language matters. Language is an active tool in oppression. I am not co operating with my own oppression or that of other women. Again, not apologetic if this upsets someone whose actions are oppressing women.

This. It reminds me of the "we're just lesbians sitting on a chair eating pizza" thread a while back - it's just so obtuse.

You mean the OPEN inclusive event where a bunch of male security guards physically manhandled some lesbians by picking up their chairs and removing them from the event, that one? The 'inclusive' event apart from actually excluding lesbians? How was that in any was 'obtuse'? Why must lesbians be actually physically removed from an inclusive event, before the event has even started?

jacky the dictionary definition of a transwoman is a male to female transsexual.

When it comes to the law, it is the legal definitions that matter.

For example, the dictionary definition of the term 'woman' is: an 'adult human female'

whereas the legal definition of a woman is: a female of any age

The difference between the dictionary and the legal definitions is that the legal definition does not separate out the term 'girl' as an infantile / juvenile / adolescent female. That is, that the legal definition spans all the age ranges.

Every normal, decent person reading this thread:

WATCH THAT VIDEO AGAIN

Eight women, bayed at by a crowd. For holding banners asserting same sex attraction.

JUST WATCH IT

And then think that we have eighteen pages here - because some are basically saying they had it coming.

WATCH THE VIDEO

And then consider who could possibly seek to minimise it, excuse it, on the basis that eight women had it coming. What did they expect, eh? Eight women. Daring to be out in public saying things that earn the disapproval of men. Who on earth would seek to minimises that? In 2019?

WATCH THE VIDEO

Shouting at women who believe that lesbian sex can only happen between two biological females strikes me as male entitlement - I want what I want and you nasty, bigoted women cannot deny me - so I will gang up with lots of my friends and do my best to intimidate you.

Bang on. And I agree with every word of MsMcWibble's post too.