Expelled from Girlguiding for putting safeguarding first

[KatieAlcock]

Many of you will remember that Helen Watts and another Guider were expelled from Girlguiding last year. This was me - in Sept 2018 I had my membership of Guiding withdrawn for social media breaches (one FB post in a small private group) and refusing to follow Girlguiding policies on transgender members (saying I'd put safeguarding first, ahead of any policies).
I'm a longstanding Guider and Mumsnetter (naice ham, cancel the cheque, show us the diagram) but I'm anonymous for obvious reasons, generally. I'm coming out now to tell you this story.

I appealed and the former Chief Guide who held the appeal concluded that I had not breached social media guidelines (I should jolly well hope not given that 9 people saw my post!) but that I was still refusing to follow GG policy (I gave the same statement - safeguarding comes first).

My story is in the Mail on Sunday today (if this link doesn't work I'll put a clicky link in the next post).

Mail on Sunday link

I am taking GG to court on the grounds that they have discriminated against me because of my gender critical beliefs by investigating my actions when other Guiders who complain about things are not investigated.
I am asking them for a small amount in damages because though I have not lost any income, I have lost reputation and the investigation was stressful, as you can understand.
And I've asked to be reinstated, and for a full apology and statement that I did nothing wrong.

PS... I spent an hour with their professional photographer telling me "don't smile" and they go with the photo from camp with a big grin on my face, taken by my Guide??!

[Post edited by MNHQ]

Thank god no-one takes MN seriously, otherwise they might try to get posters banned or police the threads!
I know, and we might actually find out some useful information (like that the organisation you've been a leader with for 10 years has stopped being single sex without telling you).
Shame nobody takes it seriously.

Shame nobody takes it seriously

I know! Not sure what the many senior politicians who've come chat to us over the years have been doing here either, seeing as no one takes us setiously. Very odd that...

Butters, all three of those people are transwomen.

The first one, Danielle Muscato said if you don't believe them, you can suck their dick. On International woman's Day. From a woman's shelter.

The second one, is on the trans advisory board at Stonewall.

And the third one was under investigation for exposing their penis in public, and having cartoons of incest and child rape on their blog, but nonetheless still advised the government on their transgender equality report.

Nice try. But since you can't define women, you have absolutely no hope of defining transwoman.

And yes, any, or all of those people could be helping my 10-year-old shower and go to the toilet at guides. Not just without me knowing, but with me being assured that the only people going near my child are female.

Nothing supports your assertion that a man identifying as a woman does not conform to male pattern criminality or behaviour. The Swedish study shows the exact opposite. Not to mention prison statistics.

And no, a penis makes no difference.

A man without a penis is a eunuch, not a woman.

Erm butters if transwomen are women then are all women transwomen

Please, nobody report butterbot’s 21.03 post where s/he appears to hit some sort of Orwellian infinite loop of mantra repetition. It’s gold

Katie kudos to you! Fantastic work, though I'm sorry that it came to such a point that you had to take this action. Will be off to do something unmentionable involving money later tonight!

Luckily for all those opposed to Katie and her action, the 8 FWR terribly-transphobic posters here that no one else takes notice of will all just keep talking to each other.

God forbid another parent/general Mumsnet user will accidentally wander into this thread and find that Katie's opponents want us all to understand that girls have penises, men with beards don't 'erase women' and that female sex offence rates are just like the males.

But thankfully, they'll all just read the conversation and agree with the star posters who say , of course girls have penises, of course men with beards don't erase women, of course women offend sexually just at the same rate as men. FFS, these women on FWR have some strange views!

Because women with penises need protection. Obvs!

It’s o k - happy to bump the post - no one takes mumsnet seriously outside of here anyway !
Trans women are women Trans women are women Trans women are women Trans women are women Trans women are women

Okay, we've progressed from an exchange of (albeit daft) words to put the dog down Damian.

👌

Brownie leader here.
Fully supporting you all the way.
My dd has gone through all guiding and is still a guide.
That is her safe haven where she can be herself with friends who have known her since she was 5 and forget all kinds of pressures.
She was raped, by a man, and if girl guiding takes her safe haven away she would be devastated and so would I.
Whatever I can do to support, I will. Please pm me if I can make a difference.

So sorry mogloves for your daughter. 💐
I hope guides will change and your daughter can find peace there

mogloveseggs - my goodness your poor DD.

So sorry about your dd

Thanks Katie and good luck.

I don't know how to donate to your cause as the link seems to have been removed.

Mogloves so sorry your daughter went through that.

MollyHuaCha try googling Expelled from GirlGuiding because of my Gender Critical Beliefs

I saw your public post and links on your Facebook page and have shared it.

Thank you for standing so strong for girls Katie, you are doing such an important thing here.

Concerned parents could contact GirlGuiding to say what they think about this.

Random maths question: what is 3,979 as a percentage of 5,000?

Almost 80%, innit?

Maths not my strong suit!

I donated towards legal fees at Crowdjustice if anyone cares to Google.

Plus - I gave just a little little. School holidays! Many ice creams to fund. But seems like many other people also gave a little too. Strength in numbers!

NoSquirrels pretty much bang on! You're better at this than you think

Thanks for indulging me in this completely random diversion.

KatieAlcock

Thank you for all you have done to try to protect girls.

Respect to you.

Saw the article this morning, Katie. Thank you.
As a leader with a teenage unit, I will resign if I am forced to accept transgirls. Having to accept a male in my unit would completely change the space, to the detriment of all the girls and young women present. How on earth am I supposed to break down gender stereotypes and ensure these girls develop a healthy disrespect for the same if we are all forced into accepting that a male can be a female by virtue of complying with them? Bunch of hairy old bollocks. I am a leader because I want the girls in my unit to be free of gender rules, and to be empowered to navigate society as strong women. I want to be able to discuss menstruation and get rid of stigma. And discuss relationships, sex and pregnancy to give girls the tools they need. (And no need to be concerned about same sex relationships, it isn’t the 1950s and we’re perfectly well aware that we have lesbian youth and adult members). I won’t pretend that a boy is a girl just because he wants to eschew masculine norms (but I’ll support his right to do so - we talk about that at guides too). We work extremely hard on supporting individuality and providing a nurturing space for ALL girls, whether they have long hair, a fashion habit and sparkly nails, or a shaved head and grey jogging pants. Girls of all shapes, sizes, and personalities valued.
As an adult trainer and DC, I drop small pebbles of dissent into the woke lake of policy periodically. No one has asked me to leave, yet, but I’m reasonably careful.
I wish you all the success. This organization has teetered off track and needs to be righted.

The complete absence of common sense is absurd.

Any male who thinks it's their right to have access to female only facilities and services, no matter how they fucking identify, are exactly those who we need to keep out.

@GrandmaSteglitszch - I did as a parent. Pretty much got shut down and told I was being silly.

I even pointed out that gg breeched their own policy by allowing a young transman to be identified on their social media (ie outing them), and the transman in turn breeched their policies by encouraging young women who were experiencing feelings of disgust at their growing bodies to bind their breasts with their old binders instead of speaking with a grown up about it.

GG's reaction was to report to the young person that someone had complained because they were transgender, completely missing the point that the young person was actively encouraging members of their own group in the dysphoric feelings they were having themselves instead of exploring whether this might be a natural stage in a young woman's life.

Butters trans people are no more likely to be predators than anyone else. Why would you even raise that insidious idea? Most trans people are decent people just living their life.

Just like the vast majority of Catholic priests.

But due to the Church’s poor safeguarding policies and the culture of secrecy, a small number of predators were able to use the Church to access, abuse and silence victims.

Fix your safeguarding policies. Don’t foster secrecy. This is necessary to protect all children, including trans ones.