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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph column - not even attempting to hide AGP

336 replies

BretonDinosaur · 02/08/2019 19:08

It’s behind a paywall, will post screenshots in next post

David Thomas is a 60 year old man, who according to his Telegraph column is still living as a man whatever that means. He is transitioning and he is writing about it in his weekly column. In the past he gave us Not Guilty: The Case in Defence of Men which is described as a rebuttal of feminist charges against men. So I think he’s established his misogyny credentials, which raises the question of why he wants to transition to emulate womanhood?

It’s so clear from the above article that it’s sexual arousal. He talks about his growing breasts in a clearly lascivious way. It’s not even gently disguised or denied. The AGP is front and centre in the article.

Yet we’re still not allowed to discuss it. We’re not allowed to point out that many men get off on the idea of being seen as a woman. They talk about it openly but the activists who seek to remove women’s rights shout us down as bigots for daring to raise it.

Those who are still championing the be nice/what harm can it do still seem to deny that it’s a driver. How? When it is this blatant how can it not be openly discussed and the risks/behaviours openly managed or challenged.

OP posts:
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TemporaryPermanent · 10/08/2019 21:28

Well he's certainly channelling Polly Filler very well. Mildly aghast at reading a few hundred words describing a mature adult choosing clothes for a funeral, and, erm, that's it.

Just a note to any human being - if anyone at all regards my 30 plus years as an adult women to represent 3 decades of shopping opportunities, you can go fuck yourself. I'm sure some of you would find that the most erotic possible event.

Agrona · 10/08/2019 22:14

Interesting product placements in the second article.

LangCleg · 10/08/2019 22:30

‘The church is packed,’ he said. ‘You’ll have to take a family seat at the front.’

Of course they did, dear.

Haworthia · 10/08/2019 22:38

I find it interesting (and by “interesting” I mean REALLY FUCKING UNSURPRISING) that this man is a vintage MRA.

Also, isn’t it also interesting that he still trades using his (well known in certain circles) real name, and still “lives as a man”. Is he planning on being a woman half the week, a la Pips Bunce, because it’ll be harder to get paid if he’s trading under a new name full time?

BiologyIsReal · 10/08/2019 22:54

Yes, because going to a funeral, which is emotional and difficult time for family and friends is all about what you are going to wear isn't it? And that's before the ultimate rudeness in arriving late and grinning around as you take a place reserved for family.

Oh do one you self-entitled prat. His column gets more disgusting by the week.

owlonabike · 10/08/2019 22:59

What I’ve seen of that article has sickened me. A funeral is about grief and love and celebration of a life, not an excuse to be the centre of attention.

Datun · 10/08/2019 22:59

Dear lord. The self eroticising ramblings of a cross dresser have never, ever been of the slightest interest to anyone but the man concerned.

Clearly.

Haworthia · 10/08/2019 23:06

She looked at me with an affectionate smile and said, ‘Yes, I’d been wondering what you were going to wear.’

Does anyone think this woman’s statement might have been a bit loaded? As in “I was wondering how twattish you were going to look / how much of a scene you were going to make” etc etc Grin

Sicario · 10/08/2019 23:09

He's playing the role of his life. Everybody else is just a prop in the brave and stunning fetish Theatre of Dave. And the costume department! Oh, be still my beating bollocks lady heart. Lights, camera, action...

TinselAngel · 10/08/2019 23:12

Does anyone think this woman’s statement might have been a bit loaded?

That's exactly how took it too. I wonder if she is friends with his (ex?) wife?

Dangerfloof · 15/08/2019 18:59

I can’t get away with wearing frocks yet. I needed a workable compromise
shopping opportunities

Jesus h, are they all like this? Reducing woman to such mundane crap. FWIW I hate 'frocks' I own 3 for weddings and funerals and christenings.
I would lamp anyone who offered me a shopping opportunity. I love the internet for clothes shopping.
And when he finally transes can I have all his fancy posh mens clothes. Save me having to shop for years probably.

Campervan69 · 16/08/2019 10:22

www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/hated-trans-almost-much-hated-now/

Latest column here. Don't read unless you want to get cross.

I thought it was interesting that Jeffrey Epstein had a picture of Bill Clinton in Hillary's dress on his wall and I'm surprised that this hasn't been picked up on by the media in connection with AGP and the push by obviously very rich people to push this trans agenda on children especially

Campervan69 · 16/08/2019 10:23

This is a snapshot of the article

"A friend asked me an interesting question the other day: ‘Is there anything good aboutbeing trans?’

For most of my life, I would have said, ‘No.’ I regarded the nagging sense of wrongness, which defied all my attempts to will it away, as an unmitigated curse. It was the Achilles heel that undermined me from within. And the unintended consequences of my desperate attempts to deny and ‘cure’ it ended up costing me my marriage, my family and my home.

I hated being trans almost as much asI hated myself.But then two people showed me that there was another way. The first was Juno Roche. She is theauthor of Queer Sex, a guide tosex and relationships for trans peoplethat has opened eyes and minds in the same way that The Joy of Sex did for straight folk, many years ago. She’s also a passionate, effective advocate for transgender rights, while remaining reasonable, coherent and thoroughly likeable."

Campervan69 · 16/08/2019 10:24

"I went to stay with Juno a few years ago at her small, idyllic village house in the hills of Andalusia and we yakked like fishwives non-stop for 72 hours. She was funny, full of life and absolutely at ease with being a transwoman. Much of her life had been tough. But now she seemed fulfilled in a way she had clearly not been before she transitioned. Juno made me think, ‘Maybe I could do this…’ Her view was more, ‘You must do this.’

Sitting at her kitchen table, she pointed up at a cupboard and said, ‘I’ve got a box filled withhormone patchesin there, and if you don’t promise me you’re going to transition, I’m going to come into your room while you’re asleep and stick them all over your bum.’

When, just recently, I put the ‘Is there anything good…?’ question to Juno, she of course replied, ‘Yes,’ and then added, ‘People often don’t believe me when I say that if I had a choice, I’d always choose to be trans. But it’s the only identity that ever made sense to me. It feels aspirational. It allows me to cross borders towards a better, happier, more authentic version of me. I’m doing the best I can, to be the best I can. My trans identity enables me to do just that.’"

Campervan69 · 16/08/2019 10:25

"The other person who gave me the confidence to see a positive side to being trans was the inimitable artist,cartoonist and author Steven Appleby. Steve and I first met almost 30 years ago, when I was editor of Punch magazine and commissioned work from him. Neither of us had any idea of the other’s trans identity. Back then, we might not have admitted it even to ourselves.

Unlike Juno and I, Steve sees no need to transition. He enjoys having both male and female aspects to his identity. But he has a female alter ego, Nancy, and presents as female almost all the time.

Nancy has a very cool, goth-chick look, carried off with tremendous style and self-assurance. Being with Steve in Nancy mode, I really understood that if you are at ease with yourself, then others will be at ease with you too.

Steve’s answer to That Question was, ‘I can’t remember when I started thinking that being trans was something special, and fun, rather than a cross to bear. But I do remember that it struck me as a magical, through-the-wardrobe kind of thing. It sounds pretentious, but you transform into something mythical, like a centaur, or a mermaid. But instead of being part-man/part-horse, or partgirl/part-fish, you’re part-boy/part-girl.’

I too relish the idea of being a changeling. We trans people know something that the rest of the world doesn’t: what it is like to be on both sides of thegreat gender divide.

Of course, I don’t know it all about being female. Maybe we never knew quite what it was to be male. But we do get glimpses that others cannot.

For me as a novelist, being able to identify so strongly with both male and female characters is a huge help. But Steve and I have both found that the act of fashioning a new identity can be such a fascinating, all-consuming, creative endeavour that it drains some of the energy we need for our work.

Even so, my answer to that original question is now a confident, ‘Yes.’"

HostofDaffodils · 16/08/2019 10:37

I suppose what I don't understand - as somebody who knew David slightly years ago - is why he had to go and screw everything up. He's a wealthy, physically able, white man. He's a decent writer - the pieces he's writing are horribly readable. Clearly he had - and probably still has even if his marriage ended - a supportive family. If he wanted to do a bit of cross-dressing, most people would have coped. If he genuinely wanted just to drop all the alpha competitive male stuff, I'm sure he'd have only a lost a few friends and gained a lot of new ones.

So it really does seem like an illness to me. A destructive obsession in much the same way that anorexia is destructive and stunning.

But why is it not framed and seen as this. Why are newspapers presenting as just another lifestyle choice for the privileged. Like going to the latest chic Cotswold restaurant or doing up one's charmingly converted Spitalfields home?

Datun · 16/08/2019 10:39

For most of my life, I would have said, ‘No.’ I regarded the nagging sense of wrongness, which defied all my attempts to will it away, as an unmitigated curse. It was the Achilles heel that undermined me from within. And the unintended consequences of my desperate attempts to deny and ‘cure’ it ended up costing me my marriage, my family and my home.

I hated being trans almost as much asI hated myself.But then two people showed me that there was another way. The first was Juno Roche. She is theauthor of Queer Sex, a guide tosex and relationships for trans peoplethat has opened eyes and minds in the same way that The Joy of Sex did for straight folk, many years ago. She’s also a passionate, effective advocate for transgender rights, while remaining reasonable, coherent and thoroughly likeable."

You only have to read the transwidows threads to see this in context.

To a man, the husbands vowed to reject the addiction of AGP. The escalation in porn, the overwhelming urges, and the subsequent obliteration of everything else in their lives is identical.

To maintain that a man who fetishises women to the point of uncontrollable obsession, is actually female, is not just ludicrous, it's actually quite frightening.

To only ever see women as a costume which feeds your own ego and sexual compulsion honestly makes me think that these people live an alternative reality.

It's as though they have taken the worst of misogyny, the worst of sexism, the worst of contempt for the female sex, and distilled it into something even uglier.

OldCrone · 16/08/2019 13:54

I can’t remember when I started thinking that being trans was something special, and fun, rather than a cross to bear.

the act of fashioning a new identity can be such a fascinating, all-consuming, creative endeavour

You can't have it both ways. Either being trans makes you the most oppressed, most marginalised people in the world, so much so that the rest of us have to accept the reorganisation of society to suit your needs, or you are people who are in the privileged position of being able to choose a fun and exhilarating lifestyle.

Which is it?

Campervan69 · 16/08/2019 14:10

They had actually allowed comments on this article which they haven't for the last few however I've just checked back and they've now been removed. There were about 6 none of which were complementary

Datun · 16/08/2019 14:12

OldCrone

Good point.

I suspect this man has finally come to terms with his sexual obsession and is now determined to enjoy it, and relish the legitimacy that TRAs have managed to give it.

SingingLily · 16/08/2019 14:51

This is the bit that grates on me:

*We trans people know something that the rest of the world doesn’t: what it is like to be on both sides of thegreat gender divide.

Of course, I don’t know it all about being female. Maybe we never knew quite what it was to be male. But we do get glimpses that others cannot.*

No, David, you don't. And no, you won't. Because for a start, you have no idea how deeply offensive this is on so many levels.

AlessandraAsteriti · 16/08/2019 15:13

I find being forced to witness this a form of sexual assault. They can keep their sexual proclivities for the bedroom and other consenting adults. I am not going to validate in any way a man's sexual needs.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 16/08/2019 15:42

But we do get glimpses that others cannot

Not only does David not get 'glimpses others cannot', David and his ilk always come across as the people who have the least understanding of and empathy for women anywhere on Earth. It is deeply creepy that David has so little self awareness David can't see this.

I feel more empathy and understanding from Tyson Fury than David.

ODFOx · 16/08/2019 15:52

I learnt the term gender euphoria from a TW who tried to engage with us on here.
My take is that GD people are worthy of sympathy.
GE people are fetishists who should keep it behind closed doors. There should be no such thing as kink shaming because no-one should know there's anything to shame. Sex is a private thing. .

The author of the Telegraph piece (David Thomas) is loving his young boobs. Fair play to him. I wish he'd kept it to himself but I guess he needs to write to eat...he isn't claiming to be female...he's completely blatant that the whole thing is just a sexual buzz for him...and he isn't trying to claim that he has more need of women's spaces and services than women.
Meh, he's a bit of a perv but not sure if he's a feminist issue tbh.

SingingLily · 16/08/2019 16:23

Ah, but he makes it clear that he is describing the process by which he will "eventually become a woman" and in his first article in the series, he writes yearningly of the day when he will be able to stand in the queue for the ladies and the woman next to him will look at him and think "Hmm, nice handbag".

His aspiration to use the women's toilets and thus invade single-sex spaces makes this very much a feminist issue.

And if I'm the woman unfortunate enough to be standing next to him in the queue, I guarantee I won't be thinking "Nice handbag".

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