This is a good thread about female trans allies

[Doyoumind]

twitter.com/overpow_erin_g/status/1156003798898241543?s=19

Thoughtful insights into how some women get drawn into the wrong side of the debate.

Navigator I think there is a difference between supporting and accepting trans people and going around calling women terfs and fascists and claiming feminists are in bed with and funded by right wing evangelicals. Of course there is, but that does not make it right to use patronising stereotypes to belittle young women. It is not an either/or position - as my first post said, I think we need to allow nuance.

Spot the contradiction? It's all regulars together until it doesn't suit.

You're absolutely right lass. I try to avoid making generalisations about the users of the board as I can, of course only speak for myself. Mea Culpa

I would point out that you are also a regular

Whether you like to admit it or not, gender critical organisations are funded by the far right.

I must have missed all the funding Jennifer Pritzker sent our way.

I am aware of far right funding in this area, but it isn't going to the gender critical side.

I presume she means conservative religious groups do not support trans ideology and she assumes that conservative equals far right, which in itself is a reflection of how ludicrously polarised the world has become. She thinks sharing one view must equal sharing all views.

Well soz, Jenn, but I'm pretty sure Donald Trump and I are in agreement that the sky is blue. That doesn't make me far right.

people, of all ages, can be supportive of trans without that meaning they are silly brainwashed girls desperate to fit in

Well said
And if you're older and supportive of trans it doesn't mean it's because you're desperate to fit in either or only doing it for male approval.

When I look at Mermaids and their Barbie-GI Joe gender spectrum and read about young lesbians who are considering transitioning to make life easier, I really struggle to see what is nuanced or accepting about this ideology.

This is how many people of "my" generation dressed. And so did I. Spot the men/women; yet nobody claimed to be the opposite sex it order to "express their true self"
People still do dress to suit themselves.
Trans men and women existed in the 70s and 80s too, not just now.

as anyone yet explained how there feminism allows them to put down other woman who don't have the same view as them in this thread, or attack other woman who actually do hold the same view as them because they have fallen out with them?

Yay! Bespin came back! Did you get a chance to read that 1975 magazine I showed you? Isn't it interesting about the history of the community? Rich, varied, and nothing like the revisionist tropes that have taken hold on the Twatter. What did you think?

Greater acceptance of humanity, it all its myriad variations, to me is a positive of the younger generation, not a negative.

How can telling a feminine boy or a masculine girl that they are 'trans', and need medicating and mutilating, be described as 'greater acceptance'?

Greater acceptance, to me, is accepting that people have all sorts of personalities and can present in any way they wish, and none of that depends on their sex, which can't be changed. Trans ideology is the opposite of that.

There was far more acceptance of variation in the past, in the 70s, 80s and 90s. The 80s in particular was a great time for looking at someone and doing a double take when you couldn't work out whether they were male or female. It was all done in a much more playful way, though, with people playing about with gender.

Lamahaha with respect, your generation was not necessarily 'right' and you cannot assume everyone was comfortable and happy at that time, just because you were. Other people may feel differently to you and need to live their lives in a way that seems strange to you, but that does not make it wrong. Surely you can see the negative territory you are straying into - it can easily come over as 'the youth of today' style complaining about the next generation wanting to change things up. There is nothing in life so certain as change, you cannot cling onto an idea of a golden past to resist it.

I have never thought you were trying to fit in or gain male approval Roses. I am still not 100% clear on your stance though, apart from being contrary.

People needing others to accept their true self, by way of youngsters having double mastectomies, lifelong hormones, no sex life and permanent infertility, absolutely needs addressing.

Why on earth would you think it doesn't? It's not acceptance that's required, it's challenge.

When I look at Mermaids and their Barbie-GI Joe gender spectrum and read about young lesbians who are considering transitioning to make life easier, I really struggle to see what is nuanced or accepting about this ideology

Yes. I think what I find striking is trans apologists reluctance to talk about specifics, about the consequences of all this acceptance without exception

Because it leads to Martin Ponting, Karen White, Katie Dolotowski, Lauren Hubbard, Jessica Yaniv, the brewing Tavistock scandal

These are direct consequences of this ideology

I’m afraid I don’t think the younger generation is more positive or accepting of difference. I think it’s a much more rigid and inflexible generation than previous ones. As you can see from the way they struggle with diversity of opinion.
They seem quite desperate to label themselves and everyone else.

I thought the tweet was patronising and am surprised that feminists expressed support for it so as a feminist I thought I should share my non FWR board take on the matter

I'm not as it's become clear lately that support is only for women who think the same.
Others are too weak to know their own mind, only wanting to look pretty for the males, etc.... there's been a few threads lately confirming this.
Or those with a different viewpoint are painted as derailers or tried to ridicule or patronise off. I don't think it is that surprising

The thread is going to pop soon. Before it does, thanks to those who have engaged and brought useful views and information on the topic. I've found it (mostly) interesting.

Others are too weak to know their own mind, only wanting to look pretty for the males, etc.... there's been a few threads lately confirming this.

Oh yes, the am I too pretty to be a feminist threads.

Not all change is good, Navigator. Young women having double mastectomies in order to present as men is not a good thing whichever way you look at it.

Trans men and women existed in the 70s and 80s too, not just now.

Yes, transsexuals did, I knew quite a few and none thought they were literally the opposite sex, that’s the point being made.

I’m afraid I don’t think the younger generation is more positive or accepting of difference. I think it’s a much more rigid and inflexible generation than previous ones

My 23 year old daughter said something very similar the other day. She called her generation 'extremists'.

Not all, or even most, young people are on board with the ideology.

I'm not as it's become clear lately that support is only for women who think the same.

You do love to misrepresent don’t you? Several people have specifically said their feminism is for all women, most here feel the same. But that does not mean we can’t call out women who we think are actively standing in the way of women’s liberation. We don’t have to tolerate misogyny just because it comes from a woman.

I’m afraid I don’t think the younger generation is more positive or accepting of difference. I think it’s a much more rigid and inflexible generation than previous ones. As you can see from the way they struggle with diversity of opinion.

Any challenge to the rigid thinking, is met with fear. I'm reminded of those students in Oregon, walking out, because a panel member said there are biological differences between men and women.

Or the student who agreed that a averaged height, white male, was in fact an elderly Chinese woman, if he said so.

It's extraordinary. There is no critical thinking. There is fear around thinking, in fact.

There's lots of evidence on this thread. Loads of words, about peoples right to say something, but little over what they actually say. No addressing of the actual issues.

Ooh, not that thread I think you must know that really
Feminists can wear what they like

I'm reminded of those students in Oregon, walking out, because a panel member said there are biological differences between men and women.

Nobody on this thread has disputed that there aren't any biololigal differences though.

And children being given untested drugs which will change their lives for ever is a scandal