This is a good thread about female trans allies

[Doyoumind]

twitter.com/overpow_erin_g/status/1156003798898241543?s=19

Thoughtful insights into how some women get drawn into the wrong side of the debate.

Lol.

I never said I couldn't
You're missing (yet again) that there's literally no point answering you, have you ever stopped to think why people don't engage meaningfully with you but talk to others?

question avoidance

Groundhog 🦔

Oh yes, absolutely.

🤣

Groundhog

Absofeckinlootely

But roses I still don’t know if you are speaking to me or who ?

Woman = adult human female.

Feminism = The liberation of women (see above), from the patriarchy.

Gender identity = The set of stereotypes and gender expectations imposed by the patriarchy and forming a hierarchy with women at the bottom (see above).

Your turn

Aaand, roses you still can't define Feminism?

Aaand Datun, you still can't answer whether calling women cowbag bitches is misogynistic?

You really have no opinion on someone calling women "bitches" or on people defending that comment? I find that really strange. That a feminist has no opinion on such misogynistic language.

Thinking on this, I don't think it is that strange - I mean, if you display behaviour of dismissing other women and name calling, it stands to reason that you can't see it in others when you do the exact same....

Although as you say if I or you called someone a bitch, or that women don't know their own minds, I bet there'd be an opinion forthcoming.
It's not strange, but it sure as hell is interesting/fascinating!

Not a whit. But you want me to accommodate them.
The answer is no.

Right, Datun. I'm reminded of a Posie video in which she repeats, again and again, I don't care about your feelings. I don't care how you identify. I just don't care.

It struck me because, as a woman, I've always believed and tried to live along the principle of caring. I believe that caring is good, noble, right, the best way to live. I want to be a caring person, I do.
Which brings us right back to the OP.
As women, we feel, we know, that it's right and good to care for others, for the underdog, for children, for the oppressed. And it is. And now, all of a sudden, we have this new oppressed group that needs us to care for them, support them, stroke their hurt feelings. And many of us spring into action to do just that.
And everyone else is mean. We don't want to be mean women, do we? Mean girls are bad, right....? We don't want to judge others, do we, cos that's mean. We have to be open and accepting and caring to oppressed groups.
But it's OK to be mean to those mean mean people who are mean to the poor oppressed.... men.
I opened my eyes and was finally able to say, along with Posie: I don't care.
Like her, I do care about women and girls who are being thrown under the bus.

Gawd this got tedious.

Pages and pages of patient argument and explanation from GC women.

Wholly ignored by a couple of posters going on and on (and on) about something someone said at the beginning that has been answered multiple times and misinterpreted but is STILL all they want to go on about. And accusations of no one answering their questions (although they have, and those accusers have answered damn all anyone else has asked them) and lots of it's a gang, it's a pile on, you're all a bunch of meanies.... despite multiple people trying to unpick this and engage them in an actual conversation about it.

So we're still back at the OP, demonstrated but unanswered: why do some women work so very very hard to further their own oppression and the oppression of all women in order to centre the feelings of a small group of men? They won't tell you (and you'd better be nothing but nice and patient with them although they feel under no equal obligation) but they'll demonstrate all over again via pages and pages how passionately they want women to just shut up and give those men what those men want, and just how hard they're prepared to work for those men.

The why continues to be a mystery.

DecomposingComposers

You can try all you like, to make me accountable for what someone else says. I can't do it. Literally. It's something that a court of law recognises. I cannot testify on behalf of someone else.

What I can do, is ask someone to explain what they mean when they say words. The clue is when they say words. Not when someone else says words.

Petrol, if you don’t like people saying jeering things, why did you make that comment about ‘someone sticking a dick’ on posters, because that’s jeering and insulting and a little threatening.

You can try all you like, to make me accountable for what someone else says. I can't do it.

Nobody's asking you to be accountable for it though, they're just asking you what you think.

Feminism:
I'm not finding any definition, including Wikipedia () that doesn't mention the sexes.

Femnism isn't about feelings and fancy nails.

It's biological reality.

Because women have been oppressed due to their biology for centuries.

What trans people experience is nothing to do with feminism.

They're fighting against similar issues but women and feminism isn't the problem.

So true Michelle. So much to say yet so little that says anything of consequence

Michelle

Agreed. And yes it's a bit of a time waste. Sometimes, to while away few hours, I play with my food.

Thinking on this, I don't think it is that strange - I mean, if you display behaviour of dismissing other women and name calling, it stands to reason that you can't see it in others when you do the exact same....

I absolutely do think this is what's happening which is why I drew parallels with Animal Farm earlier. They try to argue that they are fighting for women but that's not true - they are only fighting for women that think like them.

Nobody's asking you to be accountable for it though, they're just asking you what you think.

I can't think for someone else, either. Soz.

PS my last post was in refernce to the bit about people identifying as cats, which is where I am now in the discussion, and pissing myself with laughter.
Miaow!
I wonder if cats can identify as people? I believe some do.

Absolutely Lam. Women are expected to care.

The patriarchy expects women to care about men's feelings first. The patriarchy keep women in their places.

Going back to the op, they're all part of the patriarchy #4. Mummy birds to the cuckoos. 🐦

why do some women work so very very hard to further their own oppression

Who says that I consider myself to be oppressed? Surely that's the fundamental flaw in that argument?

MN is likely able to block ads on their site (it isn't difficult, depending on the tools they use). We easily block ad categories for our company websites and actually get this - choose which ad categories show up (it takes less than an hour to update).

I also have third party cookies disabled and all ad personalization turned off in my browsers. I also use heavy duty malware, virus protection, and encryption. This is why I'm baffled beyond it being site preferences on the MN developer side.

And I did mention (paraphrased) that my research from going to links from threads must be impacting the ads I'm seeing somehow. Made a joke about going incognito.

I don't see ads like this elsewhere. and today is the first time I've ever seen these ads. I also see ads on here for stuff that I have never searched - like Neuro said. I don't let apps (barely have any for security reasons) access my microphone or anything else) I have to change settings any time I want to take/download/post an image (which is super rare) and then change them back immediately.

And I have never visited anything remotely resembling what the ad portrays.

So it is weird, yeah?

Sorry for the derail ya'll, feel free to ignore this.

but they'll demonstrate all over again via pages and pages how passionately they want women to just shut up and give those men what those men want, and just how hard they're prepared to work for those men.

I don't "just want women to shut up."
We're all entitled to our own opinions, anyone who doesn't agree isn't doing it just because they don't know their own mind which has been suggested.
On the other hand we do have a kind of dismissal silencing coming from other supposed women, you get lol and dismissed and desperate for us to shut up, that's how it seems.

I'll have a go at feminism defining, wonder if Datun will actually engage with the question she's been asked (but created this one for me as a dodge) doubt it

• feminism supporting all women respecting they have their own minds and bodily autonomy wanting equality for all women

You can try all you like, to make me accountable for what someone else says.

I'm not asking for you to be accountable. I'm asking whether you think it is misogynistic to call women "cowbag bitches"?