This is a good thread about female trans allies

[Doyoumind]

twitter.com/overpow_erin_g/status/1156003798898241543?s=19

Thoughtful insights into how some women get drawn into the wrong side of the debate.

I think it’s safe to say that the idea of spending scarce public funds to make accommodations for people who identify as animals is definitely out of the box

I can't get behind the narrative that people with a different experience of consciousness to you must be mentally ill. As mentioned earlier, there's no definable biological reason for people to be homosexual or bisexual. In terms of the logistics of human procreation, it doesn't make sense. And yet, we accept the reports of individuals that are on that path as unquestionable and inviolable. Why then go on to deny other powerfully intrinsic concepts such as a sense of gender just because you can't see how someone else feels and you personally don't feel the same way.

Transvestic disorder is a paraphilic disorder. Are you suggesting that paraphilic disorders are comparable to sexual orientation? I hope not. Yes, I know not all trans have a transvestic disorder, but those who have fall under the trans / gender identity umbrella.

Any way, gender identity, relevant to single sex spaces, how?

Yes. Why wouldn't you? If a significant number of people firmly believed in something, like oh, let's have a real life example, that standing on their heads would bring them mental clarity, why wouldn't you just let them get on with it? What difference does it make to you what other people believe?

Your own little box being a euphemism for your body?

Where is this mind body dualism coming from?

When you adopt a moral framework with no place for restraint or duty, this is inevitable.

True. However this ideology's moral framework absolutely does include a demand, punishable in cases of failure, for great restraint and duty for some: the interesting point is the demands it makes of some in order to free others from restraint or duty.

For example in this moral framework it is right and good that women must show restraint in their speech, their behaviours, their requirements for dignity and privacy in order to provide for the needs of those who are freed of restraint, and have a duty to place the interests of some (interestingly people born with penises) above their own, including putting aside their sexual orientation in order to provide with sexual relations those freed from duty. Duty such as noticing and caring about other people's bodily autonomy and the belief that women have a right to enjoy sex and choices around sexual partners for example.

Who gets to choose? Who gets to abandon restraint and duty? People born male.

Who gets a huge amount of restraint and duty imposed upon them in this system with punishment for failure and insufficient obedience? People born female.

This is about dividing society into the givers and the takers. The servers and the provided for. There's no equality anywhere in sight. And somehow in the decisions over who has power and who imposes on who, nobody has the slightest difficulty sorting them into groups by sex and assigning them status by sex and sex alone.

I'm expressing that women betraying women - not women having a different opinion, women tearing down other women and behaving like a cultish mob

That's what's happening on this thread though, and I see happening on here all the time. Anyone that doesn't agree with the majority get torn down.

- gives me a visceral angry reaction and this is how I express it. In my head. I don't call them cowbag bitches to their faces or anything of the sort.

Since when has using bitch to describe another woman been ok, even if it's just in your head? How is using such a misogynistic term in any way feminist? And how come more posters aren't objecting to you using it?

What difference does it make to you what other people believe?

Not a whit. But you want me to accommodate them.

The answer is no.

Re surgery for whatever you want, this is a fascinating (and a bit horrible) read.

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/

The question was raised, what if people did want to identify as animals. My answer is to just let them get on with it. It's not going to kill me to sit next to someone with whiskers drawn on their face, is it?

Well, I was thinking more of age. I think the trans-aged should be entitled to the education available to their trans age. So, as a person whose trans age is 6, I feel a place at the local primary school should be made available to me immediately. And government should legislate for similar provision for all trans aged people.

What's the harm, you say?

Well, I'll let you ponder that one for a little bit.

that standing on their heads would bring them mental clarity, why wouldn't you just let them get on with it?

Of course I’d let them get on with it

I can’t exactly stop them can I, and why would I bother?

What I wouldn’t do is advocate diverting scarce resources like places on all women shortlists to them because of their beliefs

Debated with = 'torn down'.

No. Jettison hyperbole. And yes, feminism is very familiar with head girl/ I'm a gooder girl than you who doesn't think or say bad things about any woman ever even when I'm really pissed off. Because low status people do compete with each other for superiority and there is a cultural belief that a woman being insufficiently polite and nice has lost the right to speak.

As for let them stand on their heads, what difference does it make to you what people believe? ….. it doesn't. The whole point is that this political movement is anything but live and let live. It is forcibly and legally compelling people to enact conformity and servicing of that belief, against their own beliefs, against their own consciences, against their own best interests. That's kind of what the whole women getting really pissed off about this thing is all about.

You want me to accommodate someone who thinks they're a cat.

🤣🤣🤣

Say what you want about accommodating them. It's up to you how difficult you want to make other people's lives by not wanting to share resources. But don't deny that these people have a valid reason and justification for feeling the way they do. You've had a report of how someone else experiences their consciousness. You are not an authority to declare that they do not have that experience. The only experience you can report on is your own.

I’m telling you Datun, start investing in municipal cat flaps NOW

Yes, if people reporting to feel like cats had the same prevalence, I would think you were being rude not to accommodate them.

The only experience you can report on is your own

Oh no! Someone alert all journalists and novelists!

You may also want to notice the complete dearth of 'live and let live' and 'what harm does their belief do you' tolerance for GC women.

Why is this only virtuous one way?

And isn't it funny that the people not expected to be nicer and more tolerant are all either those with or acting on behalf of those with penises?

It’s autobiographies only from here on in

You are not an authority to declare that they do not have that experience.

Yeah but I am. Both in terms of them not actually being a cat, nor a woman.
Sorry, but I'm an expert on the fact that no man is a cat and no man is a woman.

Because reality.

Lol. Now don't you go criticising me for not stroking the ears of some transcat, and feeding them whiskas.

That's why I'm suggesting you imagine how other people feel rather than just saying well I don't feel like that so it must be impossible.

I would think you were being rude not to accommodate them

Brilliant Petrol. I shall expect you to forthwith accommodate my desire for privacy, dignity and safety by ensuring that women’s spaces remain single sex

Wouldn’t want to be rude

I’m going to need accommodating by the provision of landing pads for my winged horse.

That's why I'm suggesting you imagine how other people feel rather than just saying well I don't feel like that so it must be impossible.

Well, dear heart, perhaps you should have gone for example that wasn't a cat.

🤣

Sorry, but I'm an expert on the fact that no man is a cat and no man is a woman

🤣