Are feminists getting played?

[Maniak]

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms in a world that has women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers. And other stuff.

Yes, the trans thing is annoying, but have you noticed how it always fires up before major elections? It's like Afghanistan in the 80s when the US provided just enough weapons to keep the war going so Russia would use all it's energy and get weak.

I feel like feminism is getting distracted with the trans stuff. At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention. But I rarely see feminism these days that isn't all about trans. Seriously. Do you think we're getting played here? Is trans really such a big deal?

Is trans really such a big deal?

Oh, I dunno - there are hundreds of threads in FWR exploring this issue from different angles. How about you go off and do some reading in your own time, rather than expecting us to explain it for the millionth time. 🙄

I'm inclined to think it's a big deal and we're being played.

I do think there is a concerted attempt to distract us with the trans stuff, and it's part of a much larger agenda to roll back women's rights. There is a very obvious overlap between TRA and MRA agendas. However, if this isn't resolved it will be catastrophic for us - we won't even be able to talk about "women's rights" at all or assert our own boundaries in respect to our bodies. It is a big deal, and an existential threat to women's rights.

"There are hundreds of threads in FWR exploring this issue from different angles"

I know. That's my point.

It is a big deal, and an existential threat to women's rights.

Particularly those examples where Human Rights are being used to undermine women's rights and Children's Rights. And, in a surprisingly short timeframe, remove women's legal protections.

Until it is sorted its everything
Unless woman has a definition that excludes men a tying for and about women is meaningless

Anything about women and for women is meaningless that should be

"However, if this isn't resolved it will be catastrophic for us - we won't even be able to talk about "women's rights" at all or assert our own boundaries in respect to our bodies. "

Well, one way would just be to roll over on the semantic stuff, and just be womb-bearers or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I hate all that language, but it is just words.

RosaFreedman1983 's summary of the origins of Human Rights and how Women's Rights came into being is succinct and invaluable:

The problem with old women, poor women and funding for women is it's meaningless unless you can define the cohort you're talking about, and why they need your attention.

The public consultation has not yet had its results published. Therefore, it is still live, in terms of what the government intend to do. Hence the urgency and preoccupation with the issue. As there are still people to influence.

And, importantly, a byproduct of learning about the trans issue is that it's creating new feminists. You can't learn about it without being comprehensively informed of the misogyny behind it.

It's eye opening to a lot of women who hadn't quite realised.

Unless and until women can go back to arguing for our sex-based rights, nothing we work for will genuinely benefit us.

See the UN Women announcement that they are now about gender equality for all.

I spend my days supporting women in all sorts of ways.
My campaigning energy is generally expended in the direction of trying to preserve a feminist analysis in public policy because I need it to do the rest of my work.

Not all of us are womb bearers.
And the language changes so quickly.

I'm a woman.
A cunty one.

Well, one way would just be to roll over on the semantic stuff, and just be womb-bearers or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I hate all that language, but it is just words.

Not really. The idea is to colonise womanhood. Adopting the lingo will be a stickingplaster solution. Long-term, the plan is to eliminate sex differences, and therefore women as a class, with rights of their own.

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathroom

OH IS THAT ALL IT IS? SILLY ME.

Why aren't you starting the daily threads about the things you judge to be more important then OP? Anyone can start threads, but you seem to be complaining that "anyone" isn't doing your bidding?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights?call=NewConversationPage

Well, one way would just be to roll over on the semantic stuff, and just be womb-bearers or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I hate all that language, but it is just words.

It's not "just words". Words have meaning, and rights require definitions to be secure. TRAs have had some success in claiming the word "woman", and now they are going after "female". Once the category of "female" includes those with penises, you can kiss goodbye to your sex-based rights, because sex will be a fictional rather than material category.

"Well, one way would just be to roll over on the semantic stuff, and just be womb-bearers or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I hate all that language, but it is just words."

Problem with that is if you accept the dehumanising language you are paving the way for the removal of rights. Removing women's rights is a slow, gradual process and it stars with language designed to dehumanise those whose rights are under threat.

I see this is one of those threads.

It's not even the weekend yet.

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms

Well...........that tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of the 'Trans thing' and what you're objectives are.

"and that's all I've got to say on that"

If we are no longer able to define what a woman is then we won’t have feminists as we won’t be able to define what a feminist is as we can’t define what a woman is 🤦‍♀️

Anyway, threads like this are a distraction in themselves.

I see this is one of those threads.
**
It's not even the weekend yet.

And just in time for some really important things happening for women that won't help the TRA narrative.

🤔

It's a total waste of time and shouldn't need to be done.

But it does. Without it, none of the rest stands.

Is trans really such a big deal?

It's men that are the problem. Trans is a vehicle/juggernaut that men use to make themselves more of a problem to females.

Hope that helps.

But if you 'roll-over' on the semantic stuff then women (or XX or whatever you replace the word women with) won't have any rights because written law refers to 'women' not 'XX' or 'womb havers' or whatever. In sport it's the 'women's' category. If that includes men then women will be outcompeted in virtually every sport (not darts, probably, I stand to be corrected). We'd have to organise to get an 'XX' category from scratch (and so on for any XX space or right).

I see this is one of those threads.

I know. But you have to show willing, occasionally. For the lurkers.